Christ SHALL Save His People From Their Sins

[Silverhair]

looks like those who wrote the confessions of faith did find them in the bible

What they, as all those that wrote confessions, did was search for scripture that they thought supported their view.

They start from a biased position so for those that support that view, great, but for those that oppose that view, not so.

You like the LLBCF/WCF but I see that it does not reflect the love of God but rather determinism which is what they supported so they searched for scripture that they thought supported their view.

Confessions can be helpful but they are no t the word of God.

 

[Zaatar71]

What they, as all those that wrote confessions, did was search for scripture that they thought supported their view.

Is that what they said? Or did they answer the question, what does the bible teach?

They start from a biased position

Where do you get this idea from? Do you have them saying they had a biased view? Or are you seeking to avoid the confessional truths?

so for those that support that view, great, but for those that oppose that view, not so.

What if those who oppose the view were the unbelievers the scripture speaks of?

You like the LLBCF/WCF but I see that it does not reflect the love of God

It focuses on the cross, and God's love for His elect children. That sounds like love to me. God loved The elect enough to save every one of them, no matter where they are in the world.

but rather determinism which is what they supported

You make it sound like a bad thing if God Himself actually does what he has determined to do! Do you trust God SH,? Is it okay if he does what he has determined to do? In your idea, does God fail to do what he determined to do?

so they searched for scripture that they thought supported their view.

That is what you say. Do you have a quote saying they did it backwards? The confession says that these are things most surely believed among us!

Confessions can be helpful but they are no t the word of God.

They say what the word of God teaches, if it is a biblical confession of faith. Can you show where they did not get it correct?

 

[Silverhair]

Is that what they said? Or did they answer the question, what does the bible teach?

Ya I am quite sure they put that in large bold letters on the title page.

They naturally bring their bias into what they wrote. Are you so naive as to think they would not?

They wrote what they thought supported their particular view of calvinism.

Where do you get this idea from? Do you have them saying they had a biased view? Or are you seeking to avoid the confessional truths?

You mean am I seeking to deny calvinist confessional opinions. You may call them truths I do not, I call them errors.

What if those who oppose the view were the unbelievers the scripture speaks of?

And what is more likely is that those that hold hold those views are in error as they disagree with the word of God.

It focuses on the cross, and God's love for His elect children. That sounds like love to me. God loved The elect enough to save every one of them, no matter where they are in the world.

Since one is only elect when they are in the "elect one" Christ Jesus that shows that the teaching of your confessions is in error.

You make it sound like a bad thing if God Himself actually does what he has determined to do! Do you trust God SH,? Is it okay if he does what he has determined to do? In your idea, does God fail to do what he determined to do?

Your divine determinism is not just a bad thing it is unbiblical.

God has a plan that will be worked out as He has set it. Where the LBCF/WCF fails is that it requires God to control every thought and action which then would make God the author of sin.

In your plan is God not sovereign? Can He not do as He has chosen to do?

God can create a world where humans have free will and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

That is what you say. Do you have a quote saying they did it backwards? The confession says that these are things most surely believed among us!

Again we see their bias ZA. Remember the WCF/LBCF are calvinist documents so you may accept them but why would you expect us the trust the word of God to do so?

You do ask some rather dumb questions by time ZA.

They say what the word of God teaches, if it is a biblical confession of faith. Can you show where they did not get it correct?

"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass."

That is your calvinism creeping into your confession. Not biblical but you accept it as you are a calvinist, most Christians reject it as we are not calvinists.

 

[Zaatar71]

Ya I am quite sure they put that in large bold letters on the title page.

They naturally bring their bias into what they wrote. Are you so naive as to think they would not?

They wrote what they thought supported their particular view of calvinism.

You mean am I seeking to deny calvinist confessional opinions. You may call them truths I do not, I call them errors.

And what is more likely is that those that hold hold those views are in error as they disagree with the word of God.

Since one is only elect when they are in the "elect one" Christ Jesus that shows that the teaching of your confessions is in error.

Your divine determinism is not just a bad thing it is unbiblical.

God has a plan that will be worked out as He has set it. Where the LBCF/WCF fails is that it requires God to control every thought and action which then would make God the author of sin.

In your plan is God not sovereign? Can He not do as He has chosen to do?

God can create a world where humans have free will and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?


Again we see their bias ZA. Remember the WCF/LBCF are calvinist documents so you may accept them but why would you expect us the trust the word of God to do so?

You do ask some rather dumb questions by time ZA.

"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass."

That is your calvinism creeping into your confession. Not biblical but you accept it as you are a calvinist, most Christians reject it as we are not calvinists.

I am pretty sure these men just used their bibles here. They did not mention this term Calvinism at all!
These are just called Confessions of faith, the faith once delivered to the saints. you continue to not use the biblical term foreknow correctly! Why do you do this? I do not think my questions are dumb! What do you think was so dumb? It looks like you are just making things up SH.

 

[Silverhair]

I am pretty sure these men just used their bibles here. They did not mention this term Calvinism at all!
These are just called Confessions of faith, the faith once delivered to the saints. you continue to not use the biblical term foreknow correctly! Why do you do this? I do not think my questions are dumb! What do you think was so dumb? It looks like you are just making things up SH.

So correct me ZA what does foreknow mean? Now I want you to be sure you make it nice and clear so I have no doubt as to what you think it means.

Ya I am sure they used their bibles ZA. They had to find verses that they thought support their calvinism.

Dumb questions that you think are gotcha type questions ZA. You and many calvinists use them all the time. You know something alone the line of "have you stopped beating your wife?"

 

[Zaatar71]

So correct me ZA what does foreknow mean? Now I want you to be sure you make it nice and clear so I have no doubt as to what you think it means.

Ya I am sure they used their bibles ZA. They had to find verses that they thought support their calvinism.

Dumb questions that you think are gotcha type questions ZA. You and many calvinists use them all the time. You know something alone the line of "have you stopped beating your wife?"

You do not seem to be making much sense here! We went over the word Foreknowledge and saw that it was used of persons. Persons who were sinners, who God set His love on them/ What gotcha questions are you speaking about? I ask questions because it is hard to follow your train of thought! Do not worry, we are here to help you!

 

[Silverhair]

You do not seem to be making much sense here! We went over the word Foreknowledge and saw that it was used of persons. Persons who were sinners, who God set His love on them/ What gotcha questions are you speaking about? I ask questions because it is hard to follow your train of thought! Do not worry, we are here to help you!

You lost it when you cannot even say what foreknowledge means ZA.

I have tried to help you but you just do not seem able to grasp even basic concepts.

 

[Silverhair]

It's been fun but I have things to do. TaTa.

 

[KenH]

God can create a world where humans have free will and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

Sounds a lot like the religious philosophy known as Deism.

 

[Silverhair]

Sounds a lot like the religious philosophy known as Deism.

Then you and ZA should look up what Deism means.

So you do not think God is omniscient, has complete foreknowledge?

 

[KenH]

So you do not think God is omniscient, has complete foreknowledge?

God absolutely is totally omniscient and has complete foreknowledge; He foreordained EVERYTHING that happens.

 

[Silverhair]

God absolutely is totally omniscient and has complete foreknowledge; He foreordained EVERYTHING that happens.

Even the evil, the sin?

 

[Zaatar71]

Then you and ZA should look up what Deism means.

So you do not think God is omniscient, has complete foreknowledge?

two differnt words, two different meanings in scripture, You have been told this, then you ignore it. Truth will not come your way.

 

[KenH]

Even the evil, the sin?

 

[Silverhair]

two differnt words, two different meanings in scripture, You have been told this, then you ignore it. Truth will not come your way.

Why is it that the average calvinist cannot read and answer a basic question?

Did I say they mean the same thing NO.

I asked a question and I note you did not answer.

You are the typical calvinist that I see on the boards, a lot of blow and bluster but no substance.

 

[Silverhair]

View attachment 10995

Did not answer the clear question.

Want to try again.

 

[KenH]

Did not answer the clear question.

Want to try again.

Revelation 13:8 The book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

 

[Silverhair]

Revelation 13:8 The book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

All that was needed was a YES or NO answer but since you can't do that I will take it from the verses you posted that your version of God actually decreed all the sin and evil in the world. So you have now made Him responsible for that.

Now to be clear you said "He foreordained EVERYTHING that happens."

foreordained
(of God or fate) appoint or decree (something) beforehand.

And your WCF/LBCF is clear when it says
"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass"
Yes I know they then tried to get God of the hook but it is kind of hard to say He decree all things but then want to change all things to just some things.

So that would require that He decree all the sin and evil which would logically mean that He commits sin as He would have to think about it beforehand. Logically how can He decree something that He had not thought about.

But the bible tells us there is not sin in Christ {God}.
1Jn_3:5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

So the calvinist version of God is not the one we see in scripture.

 

[KenH]

All that was needed was a YES or NO answer

We could go on trading "Yes" and "No" for a long time. I prefer to listen to God's Word.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them.

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

Exodus 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him.

Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

Exodus 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.

Exodus 11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

Exodus 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD.

Exodus 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.

Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

 

[Silverhair]

We could go on trading "Yes" and "No" for a long time. I prefer to listen to God's Word.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them.

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

Exodus 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him.

Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

Exodus 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.

Exodus 11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

Exodus 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD.

Exodus 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.

Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

So we have a calvinist that finally admits their deterministic religion makes God the author of all the sin and evil in the world.

The bible disagrees but should I tell Ken, and @Zaatar71 since he agreed with Ken, he is wrong? It may upset them and I really would not want to do that.