The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

Silverhair said:

But BF you continue to ignore that Christ died for everyone not just a select group or even for only those that would eventually trust in Him.

So by your stated view all of humanity will be saved and the is universalism.

For Whom Did Christ Die?

HE DIED FOR

Mat_9:13; Luk_5:32 died for sinners
1Ti_2:6; Isa_53:6 all
Heb_2:9; 1Ti_4:10 every man
Joh 3:15 whoever believes in Him
Joh_3:17 the world
Joh_3:16; Joh_3:18 whoever believes
1Jn_2:2 the whole world
Rom_5:6 the ungodly
Rom_5:8-10 us while we were sinners
2Pe_2:1 false teachers
Mat_20:28 the many
Joh_11:50-51 Israel
Eph_5:25 the Church
Gal_2:20 “me”

Does that list leave anyone out BF?

Click to expand...

He died for everyone that has been delivered from this present evil world [saved] now is that all without exception, No and it will never happen, unless you now believe in universalism and everybody going to be delivered in the end.

Silverhair said:

BF He was our propitiation the appeasing sacrifice, the atoning sacrifice.

Atonement is not taking away the sins BF it is covering those sins. We see the work of Christ clearly foreshadowed in the OT by the atoning sacrifices.

Here for the nation of Israel
Exo_32:30 Now it came to pass on the next day H4283 that Moses H4872 said H559 (H8799) to the people H5971, "You have committed H2398 (H8804) a great H1419 sin H2401. So now I will go up H5927 (H8799) to the LORD H3068; perhaps H194 I can make atonement H3722 (H8762) for H1157 your sin H2403."

Here for the individual
Lev_1:4 ‘Then he shall put H5564 (H8804) his hand H3027 on the head H7218 of the burnt offering H5930, and it will be accepted H7521 (H8738) on his behalf to make atonement H3722 (H8763) for him.

In both cases the stem is
(Piel)
1. to cover over, pacify, propitiate
2. to cover over, atone for sin, make atonement for
3. to cover over, atone for sin and persons by legal rites

Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world BF, His death covered their sins. His death does not save them. We are only saved by God's grace through faith in His risen son.

Click to expand...

His death took away the sins of whom He died. Now are everyone's sins taken away ? Nope, therefore He is not their propitiation, impossible

Silverhair said:

How is telling the truth about our salvation Christ dishonoring BF?

The fact you ignore that we are saved through faith in the risen Christ would fit the bill BF.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Click to expand...

You would be telling a lie, because His Death saved them He died for, they are reconciled to God, thats part of salvation.

And get real, you dont believe that those He saved by His life are all saved if you believe some He rose from the dead in behalf of are going to hell. Now is everyone He died for saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now is their a promise here that the reconciled shall be saved by His Life ? Yes or no

Brightfame52 said:

He died for everyone that has been delivered from this present evil world [saved] now is that all without exception, No and it will never happen, unless you now believe in universalism and everybody going to be delivered in the end.

Click to expand...

BF you are ignoring what the word of God tells us as to whom Christ died for.

Your view is promoting universalism.

Brightfame52 said:

You would be telling a lie, because His Death saved them He died for, they are reconciled to God, thats part of salvation.

And get real, you dont believe that those He saved by His life are all saved if you believe some He rose from the dead in behalf of are going to hell. Now is everyone He died for saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now is their a promise here that the reconciled shall be saved by His Life ? Yes or no

Click to expand...

It is obvious that you are just going to ignore what the word of God says so that you can hold to the man-made religion you have.

The truth is right there for you to see but you continue to deny it.

Silverhair said:

BF you are ignoring what the word of God tells us as to whom Christ died for.

Your view is promoting universalism.

Click to expand...

You ignoring and speaking against His death which according to the will of God, delivered them He died for from this present evil world. And you know thats not true of every human being, lest you have become a universalist Either a universalist or limited atonement because His Death saves.

Silverhair said:

It is obvious that you are just going to ignore what the word of God says so that you can hold to the man-made religion you have.

The truth is right there for you to see but you continue to deny it.

Click to expand...

Thats you ignoring scripture truth. Now according to Rom 5:10 who shall be saved by His Life ?

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Brightfame52 said:

You ignoring and speaking against His death which according to the will of God, delivered them He died for from this present evil world. And you know thats not true of every human being, lest you have become a universalist Either a universalist or limited atonement because His Death saves.

Click to expand...

BF you are really confused.
In post #166 you say we are saved by His death, which is wrong
then in post # 167 you say we are saved by His life, which is correct.

I have listed a number of verses that tell us who Christ died for and you still do not grasp the fact that He died for the whole world.

You are letting your false religion lead you into error.

Since Christ died for all the people that would be included under the verses listed, who do you think Christ did not die for?

HE DIED FOR

Mat_9:13; Luk_5:32 died for sinners
1Ti_2:6; Isa_53:6 all
Heb_2:9; 1Ti_4:10 every man
Joh 3:15 whoever believes in Him
Joh_3:17 the world
Joh_3:16; Joh_3:18 whoever believes
1Jn_2:2 the whole world
Rom_5:6 the ungodly
Rom_5:8-10 us while we were sinners
2Pe_2:1 false teachers
Mat_20:28 the many
Joh_11:50-51 Israel
Eph_5:25 the Church
Gal_2:20 “me”

I know this does not fit with your philosophy BF but you should not be placing trust in a man-made philosophy over the word of God.

Yes Christ did die for those that He delivers from this evil world BF. You seem to think He only died for them but clear scripture proves your view is wrong.
They are part of the whole world that Christ died for.

God's desire is that all should come to repentance and be saved and that is why He sent His son into this world as the atoning sacrifice for the whole world so that those that would freely believe in the risen Christ would by the grace of God be saved through faith.

Brightfame52 said:

Thats you ignoring scripture truth. Now according to Rom 5:10 who shall be saved by His Life ?

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Click to expand...

Reconciled does not mean saved BF.

By your logic the verse should have been written:
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being saved, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom 5:10 For ifG1487 while we were enemiesG2190 we were reconciled G2644 to GodG2316 throughG1223 the deathG2288 of His SonG5207, muchG4183 moreG3123, having been reconciled G2644, we shall be savedG4982 by His lifeG2222.

G2644

καταλλάσσω
katallássō
καταλλάττω

katallássō implies God has laid aside or withdrawn His wrath.

Silverhair said:

BF you are really confused.
In post #166 you say we are saved by His death, which is wrong
then in post # 167 you say we are saved by His life, which is correct.

I have listed a number of verses that tell us who Christ died for and you still do not grasp the fact that He died for the whole world.

You are letting your false religion lead you into error.

Since Christ died for all the people that would be included under the verses listed, who do you think Christ did not die for?

HE DIED FOR

Mat_9:13; Luk_5:32 died for sinners
1Ti_2:6; Isa_53:6 all
Heb_2:9; 1Ti_4:10 every man
Joh 3:15 whoever believes in Him
Joh_3:17 the world
Joh_3:16; Joh_3:18 whoever believes
1Jn_2:2 the whole world
Rom_5:6 the ungodly
Rom_5:8-10 us while we were sinners
2Pe_2:1 false teachers
Mat_20:28 the many
Joh_11:50-51 Israel
Eph_5:25 the Church
Gal_2:20 “me”

I know this does not fit with your philosophy BF but you should not be placing trust in a man-made philosophy over the word of God.

Yes Christ did die for those that He delivers from this evil world BF. You seem to think He only died for them but clear scripture proves your view is wrong.
They are part of the whole world that Christ died for.

God's desire is that all should come to repentance and be saved and that is why He sent His son into this world as the atoning sacrifice for the whole world so that those that would freely believe in the risen Christ would by the grace of God be saved through faith.

Click to expand...

Those for whom Christ died are delivered from this present evil world, thats saved. Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Thats deliverance from unbelief, false religions of the world. Now is everyone delivered from this present evil world ? NO many going into the lake of fire. Or are you a universalist

Silverhair said:

Reconciled does not mean saved BF.

By your logic the verse should have been written:
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being saved, we shall be saved by his life.

Click to expand...

Yes it does means saved from the penalty of sin. Now who is it that shall be saved by His Life in Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And yes it could read :" For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being saved, we shall be saved by his life.

or it could read "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being justified, we shall be saved by his life.

Because Paul is just restating in Vs 10 what he Just stated in Vs 9 just different terminology Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him

Here being Justified by His death is followed by shall be saved [future tense] from wrath through Jesus. So you have a person saved/justified then later saved from wrath

Brightfame52 said:

Those for whom Christ died are delivered from this present evil world, thats saved. Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Thats deliverance from unbelief, false religions of the world. Now is everyone delivered from this present evil world ? NO many going into the lake of fire. Or are you a universalist

Click to expand...

Those that freely believe are the ones delivered from this present evil age.

But what you still will not accept is that the bible tells us clearly that Christ died for the whole world, even those that in the end would not trust in Him so as to be saved.

That is the error of your false religion BF.

So, no I am not a universalist. Just someone that actually believes what the bible says.

Brightfame52 said:

Yes it does means saved from the penalty of sin. Now who is it that shall be saved by His Life in Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And yes it could read :" For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being saved, we shall be saved by his life.

or it could read "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being justified, we shall be saved by his life.

Because Paul is just restating in Vs 10 what he Just stated in Vs 9 just different terminology Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him

Here being Justified by His death is followed by shall be saved [future tense] from wrath through Jesus. So you have a person saved/justified then later saved from wrath

Click to expand...

So you must be a universalist then BF. You have everyone saved as Christ died for every ones sins just as the bible clearly says.

Who among humanity is lift out of this list for whom Christ died? What part of humanity is not included?

HE DIED FOR

Mat_9:13; Luk_5:32 died for sinners
1Ti_2:6; Isa_53:6 all
Heb_2:9; 1Ti_4:10 every man
Joh 3:15 whoever believes in Him
Joh_3:17 the world
Joh_3:16; Joh_3:18 whoever believes
1Jn_2:2 the whole world
Rom_5:6 the ungodly
Rom_5:8-10 us while we were sinners
2Pe_2:1 false teachers
Mat_20:28 the many
Joh_11:50-51 Israel
Eph_5:25 the Church
Gal_2:20 “me”

Silverhair said:

Those that freely believe are the ones delivered from this present evil age.

But what you still will not accept is that the bible tells us clearly that Christ died for the whole world, even those that in the end would not trust in Him so as to be saved.

That is the error of your false religion BF.

So, no I am not a universalist. Just someone that actually believes what the bible says.

Click to expand...

A person believes after being delivered from unbelief and the evil world.

Brightfame52 said:

A person believes after being delivered from unbelief and the evil world.

Click to expand...

So you have them saved B4 they believe. Care to provide a clear verse to support that view BF.

Silverhair said:

So you have them saved B4 they believe. Care to provide a clear verse to support that view BF.

Click to expand...

Yes a person has to be saved from the power of sin b4 they can believe. Now you may be beginning to understand

Brightfame52 said:

Yes a person has to be saved from the power of sin b4 they can believe. Now you may be beginning to understand

Click to expand...

You have made quite a bold claim BF do you have the scripture to back it up?

I doubt that you do as you make a number of claims but when asked for biblical support you dodge and weave as you do not have any such text.

What I am understanding BF is that you refuse to provide any biblical support for your claims. You must get your ideas from somewhere that you consider an authority and since it can't be the bible then what or who is it?

Even the ability to come to Christ in faith is a gift based upon the cross of Calvary. At the cross, Christ purchased for His people the Grace to believe in His name Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 3

Silverhair said:

You have made quite a bold claim BF do you have the scripture to back it up?

I doubt that you do as you make a number of claims but when asked for biblical support you dodge and weave as you do not have any such text.

What I am understanding BF is that you refuse to provide any biblical support for your claims. You must get your ideas from somewhere that you consider an authority and since it can't be the bible then what or who is it?

Click to expand...

I have scripture that backs it up for me to proclaim it. I dont know what it does for you, its been my experience with you, when scripture is given you, you simply say, its out of context. Christ died for all He saved by His death, iits that simple. If a person never believes, its because Christ didnt die for that person.

Christ death results in the salvation of those He died for, so much so, He is called the Captain of their Salvation Heb 2:10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Mine you, this is in the context of having tasted death for every man in Vs 9. Through and by His death, or His suffering unto death, He became the Captain of their Salvation, through tasting[experiencing] death. Now the word captain is the greek word archēgos and means:

the author, that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause

So by His sufferings, tasting death, He became the originator, the active cause, Captain of their Salvation. It was by this means the Father ordained many sons to Glory.

BTW the word captain is the same word author in Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Christ is the author/source of our Faith. This would include the OT Saints that went before in Heb 11 as well. Christ their Mediator was the source of their faith. 4