John Wesley's Deceit

Guys are you all that clueless ? Was Toplady contending against himself ?! Get a grip .

The following is a piece from "Augustus Toplady's Letter To John Wesley"

But remember that if you would do anthing to purpose you must make a regular attack . you must encounter the whole of Zanchius , and take his arguments in their regular connection and dependency on each other . you must go through with my preface , which I prefixed to my translation of that great man . Having carried and dismantled the out-work , you must next proceed to demolish the dissertation on the divine attributes : which having destroyed , you are then to assail the citadel ; I mean those five stubborn chapters which make up the body of the treatise itself . All the allies or the arguments drawn from Scripture and reason , must likewise be put to the sword . This should you attempt to do in a manner worthy of a scholar and a divine , I shall have no objection (if life and health continue ) to measuring swords , or breaking a pike , with you . Controversy properly conducted is a friend to truth , and no enemy to benevolence .

 

From "Augustus Toplady's Letter To John Wesley" .

Let me ask you when or where I ever presumed to ascertain the number of God's elect ? Point out the treatise and the page , wherein I assert that only "One in twenty of mankind are elected." The book of life is not in your keeping , nor in mine . The Lord , and the Lord only , knoweth them that are his . He alone who telleth the stars , and calleth them all by their names , calleth also his own sheep by name , and leadeth them out , first from a state of sin into a state of grace , and then into a state of glory .

 

From "Augustus Toplady's Letter To John Wesley" .

In almost any other case , a similar forgery would transmit the criminal to Virginia or Maryland , if not Tyburn . If such an opponent can be deemed an honest man , where shall we find a knave ?-- What would you think of me , were I infamous enough to abridge any treatise of yours , sprinkle it with interpolations , and conclude it thus : "Reader , buy this book , or be damned , Witness my hand , John Wesley ? "

 

The Matchless Efrontery Of Mr. W.

From Toplady's "More Work For Mr. John Wesley"

Let us bring these nine pages to the test . Their title claims our first attention : "The Consequence Proved." What consequence ? even this ! that , upon the scriptural and Church of England principle of predestination to life , it "naturally and necessarily follows , that one in twenty , suppose of mankind , are elected ; nineteen in twenty are reprobated : that the elect shall be saved , do what they will ; the reprobate shall be damned , do what they can." These diabolical positions , enough to chill every reasonable and religious man with horror , are Mr. Wesley's own offspring , both as to sentiment and language . He had , indeed , the matchless effrontery to publish them , originally , as mine : and to render the audacious forgery complete , closed all with these words , "Reader , believe this , or be damned : witness my hand , A.T.' now , whence came it , that this concluding clause was omitted in "The Consequence Proved" ? Was it , because Mr. W. found himself ashamed to repeat so unparalled a falsehood ? I apprehend , not . For ought appears , he is still as dead to feelings of shame , as he is to torture a line of zanchius into anything like proof of my obtruding the doctrine of election upon pain of damnation . And he ,might well despair of this . whom do I condemn ? whom do I impiously consign to future punishment ? I condemn no man . I dare not pronounce concerning any man's eternal state . Herein , I judge not even Mr. Wesley himself . Though I must tell him , that , if it be ( as I most sincerely wish it may ) the divine will to save him ; he has an exceeding straight gate to pass through , before he gets to heaven .

 

Once again BB . You do not have a scintilla of a clue .

John Wesley did not confess to his forgery , just as he did not admit his multiple cases of plagiarism when it came to several others . Wesley freely fabricated what we wanted and when he wanted . He made-up stuff and attached the name of others at his pleasure . At other times he lifted entire sections from books of others and claimed he was the author -- no credit given to the original writer apparently crossed his mind .

Why in the world do you all think that AMT was worked-up about this whole affair ? He had submitted the 136 page Translation four months before this abridgment came out . The abridgment misrepresented Calvinism . Do any of you with a rational mind remaining think that Toplady wrote the abridgment with that disgusting closing ? Toplady called that conclusion blasphemous . As I said before , was he contending against himself ?! No . Wesley was up to his deceitful tricks once more to further his Arminian cause . And , like Toplady , I will say that there were more honorable Arminians who would not stoop to the base levels that Wesley brought himself to .

 

J.W. Would Not Own Up To His Lies

Can't you guys ( gender inclusive term) put all this together ? Did you carefully read what I have furnished ? I have , without question , given selective quotes -- choice ones indeed . All of them have demonstrated the deceit of J.W.

Why would A.M.T. be upset about something that he wrote himself ? -- Things which he called blasphemous after he saw them in print !? Why would he expend so much energy in his letters to Wesley if Toplady was really the author of the "Abridgment" ? In Wesley's "The Consequence Proved" he refers to Calvinists holding to a vast percentage of reprobates . He used the same kind of language regarding James Hervey and others . These "reprobate percentages" are telltail signs of Wesley's stamp . Wesley loved the inferences of his own concluding statement in the "Abridgment" . He definitely agreed with the inferences it led to . He desperately wanted the public to believe that Calvinists held to such twaddle . Wesley had a geat deal of guile to quote as the work of someone else when it was really his own . But even he could not bring himself to give the closing line about "Reader , believe this or be damned . Witness my hand , A.T ."

The deceitfulness of J.W. is common knowledge among historians . This case is is the primary evidence of that fact . The Wesley Center Online even acknowledges that Wesley pawned off on Toplady that which J.W. in fact wrote himself .

People , really , get it together . You think you are doing a noble thing in protecting the reputation of Wesley , when in reality you should be more interested in the truth . Wesley's deceitful deeds need to come out into the light .

 

BB , you are an excellent plagiarist . You follow Master John well !

 

I should have titled the other thread "Infamous Plagiarists" , because they have brought public disgrace on themselves . You are not that well-known BB , apart from this forum ( as far as I know ) so you would just be a run-of-the-mill plagiarist -- not an infamous one . And since you are not hiding your trickery but making it quite open --- I'll let you pass this time . See J.D. for details .

 

I came on the BB the other day after numerous posts were already made on the Pseudo-Rippon thread started by J.D. ( a good friend ) . As for you BB , I have known for some time that you have been copying my wording . I let it pass to humor you . But if you think it's been "thrown in my face" well ... I'll chalk that up to someone who should have grown more mellow in their old age , but chose to let their cantankerous nature rule .

 

BB , I don't copy that . Come in . BB , come in ?

Is English your second language BB ?

"plagiarism you" , "being he is your friend"


Back to the point of this thread . I gave ample evidence that Wesley forged the document called "The Abridgment" replete with enough citations to convince any fair-minded person -- ( Note : That would not be you ) . Wesley put that piece together and attached Toplady's name to further his cause . But deception will be found out and it was in shortly after Toplady's letters to Wesley ( which were also made public ) .

I ask again , why would Toplady write "The Abridgment" including that offensive last part and get worked up about how deceitful Wesley was ? Why would Toplady strenuously object to the language that was used in the closing -- calling it blasphemous ?

Why can't you put a simple 2+2 together when J.W. used some of the same "Reprobation Percentage" wordings before "The Abridgment" and afterwards ?

Why would anyone not have a reasonable , objective idea that J.W. was a habitual liar when it came to these kinds of things -- even apart from his savage treatment of A.M.T ?