Anti-Calvin

[Shortandy]

Someone gave be a book a few weeks ago and I finally started reading it. It is What Love Is This by Dave Hunt. It is over 500 pages of anti-calvinism. A lady at my church gave it to me...not sure why because I have no idea exactly what I believe in the topic.

I am only chapters into it and so far Hunts has not dealt with any of the 5 points. All he has offered so far is that Calvin was a bad guy who did some unholy things...burning people at the stake, etc, etc,. Hunt spends some time shown how Calvin was closing tied to the Catholic church and he pulled much from Augustine..who Hunts calls a heretic.

My question is: EVen if Calvin was a horrific person does that mean we should throw his thoughts and teaching out the window? Isn't possible that he came to some truth despite his evils? I just think Hunt is spending way too much time on the topic of the man.

By the way I find humorous that a guy who is not a Calvinist; who doesn't believe in Total Depravity is spending so much showing how depraved Calvin was.:laugh:

 

[Cutter]

I think John Calvin is highly overrated. Why, I guess because some people love to believe in people more than believe in God.

 

[Shortandy]

I think John Calvin is highly overrated. Why, I guess because some people love to believe in people more than believe in God.

Thanks for the comment but you didn't offer an answer to my question. Even if he is overrated does that mean that the things he taught or wrote are not worthy of consideration?

 

[skypair]

EVen if Calvin was a horrific person does that mean we should throw his thoughts and teaching out the window?

Oh, absolutely not! Good Catholics make that same decision EVERY DAY regarding their "Papally-breathed" theology! Being a "natural man" is one of the soundest foundations one can have so far as knowing the things of God!

I just think Hunt is spending way too much time on the topic of the man.

Hunt doubts that Calvin was saved, shortandy. What kind of spiritual understanding does God give to the lost? (Read 1Cor 2:7-14)

skypair

 

[Rippon]

I guess because some people love to believe in people more than believe in God.

Okay, you have been officially put in the same file as SP with this bit of nonsense.

 

[Cutter]

Okay, you have been officially put in the same file as SP with this bit of nonsense.

Thank you for your irrelevant and meaningless opinion. :thumbs:
Romans 8:5

 

[Rippon]

From TNIV

Hunt doubts that Calvin was saved, shortandy. What kind of spiritual understanding does God give to the lost? (Read 1Cor 2:7-14)

1 Corinthians 2:14 :"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

It just goes to show how much you run on sheer hatred SP. You are not in the least familar with the works of John Calvin or you would not charge him with being one without the Spirit of God. Calvin considered the things from God wisdom which was hidden yet was destined for our glory before time began. ( see 1 Cor. 2:7 ) What Calvin taught was not from the so-called 'wisdom' of the world. Calvin explained spiritual realities with spirit-taught words.( see 1 Cor. 2:13 )

I would be perfectly content not to even mention John Calvin's name. But, since you insist in bringing up his name constantly only to run it through the mud, I will counter your infantile rants.

Is it theoretically possible for you to ever have a civil word typed on your computer screen?Is it remotely possible for you to engage in truth-telling? Lying is old nature ( pun intended ) with you SP. But it does not advance your cause. ( Whatever the 'cause' may be).

 

[Shortandy]

Oh, absolutely not! Good Catholics make that same decision EVERY DAY regarding their "Papally-breathed" theology! Being a "natural man" is one of the soundest foundations one can have so far as knowing the things of God!

Hunt doubts that Calvin was saved, shortandy. What kind of spiritual understanding does God give to the lost? (Read 1Cor 2:7-14)

skypair

I know that Hunt doubts Calvin's salvation. The irony is that Hunt doesn't believe in Total Depravity...therefore his framework supports that good can come from any person; elect or not. Therefore I don't think that who Calvin was or what He did should keep us from looking at the 5 points and evaluate them based on the truth of Scripture not the character of the man. That is my point. I just found it ironic or hypocritical thats all.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Hunt doubts that Calvin was saved, shortandy. What kind of spiritual understanding does God give to the lost? (Read 1Cor 2:7-14)

It just goes to show how much you run on sheer hatred SP.

For the most part I stay out of this fight between Calvisim and non Calvinistic folks. I don't think SP said what he thinks here but what Hunts thinks, he told the truth about what Hunt said, why would you get blew out of the water at SP? You can either agree with Hunt or disagree with Hunt as the rest of us can.

 

[Shortandy]

Hunt doubts that Calvin was saved, shortandy. What kind of spiritual understanding does God give to the lost? (Read 1Cor 2:7-14)



For the most part I stay out of this fight between Calvisim and non Calvinistic folks. I don't think SP said what he thinks here but what Hunts thinks, he told the truth about what Hunt said, why would you get blew out of the water at SP? You can either agree with Hunt or disagree with Hunt as the rest of us can.

But SP defends Hunt by follwing his statement with a verse. That was an addition he made therefore it is only logical to assume he supports Hunts theory. This does not upset me for as you have already said, "you can either agree or disagree."

Also I did not intend for this to be another Calvinist debate. My intention was to ask if Hunt's assertion is fair. Should we dismiss the 5 points because Calvin did some wrong?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Someone gave be a book a few weeks ago and I finally started reading it. It is What Love Is This by Dave Hunt. It is over 500 pages of anti-calvinism. A lady at my church gave it to me...not sure why because I have no idea exactly what I believe in the topic.

I am only chapters into it and so far Hunts has not dealt with any of the 5 points. All he has offered so far is that Calvin was a bad guy who did some unholy things...burning people at the stake, etc, etc,. Hunt spends some time shown how Calvin was closing tied to the Catholic church and he pulled much from Augustine..who Hunts calls a heretic.

My question is: EVen if Calvin was a horrific person does that mean we should throw his thoughts and teaching out the window? Isn't possible that he came to some truth despite his evils? I just think Hunt is spending way too much time on the topic of the man.

By the way I find humorous that a guy who is not a Calvinist; who doesn't believe in Total Depravity is spending so much showing how depraved Calvin was.:laugh:

Hey short,

Might I suggest getting "Debating Calvinism" by Dave Hunt and James White. Then you will get both sides of the subject. And buy one for your friend too...:jesus:

 

[donnA]

Shouldn't the question be, should we dismiss anyone's biblical insights because they've done something wrong? What about our pastors or teachers, any christian author or teacher? Do we dismiss them because they've done something wrong? Fact is, we've all done something wrong, you can't name a person (other then Jesus) who has not done something wrong. So if we're dismissing people because of doing something wrong, then we'll have to dismiss everyone.

 

[Bro. James]

Somebody already alluded to the T in TULIP--TOTAL DEPRAVITY. There are many who do not understand the word total and the implications thereof. That is, 100% of man is depraved, including his freewill. This does not mean that there is no freewill, but that the will is enslaved to the sin nature of man; and therefore man is not capable of making a right choice without the intervention of God.

If we have saving faith, God gave it--Eph.2:8.

If we do anything good, it is not because of our righteousness, but rather the imputed righteousness of Jesus. All of our works are like filthy rags to God. It matters not how many novenas or pilgrimages one makes.

God brings his children to the point that they realize their condition-- without Jesus. This causes repentence. God then gives the faith to trust in what Jesus has done. That causes a person to desire to walk in newness of life, putting off the old man and the carnal things of life. This does not mean that a saved person will live a sinless life. He will stumble but never be lost. We just made it to the P in TULIP.

These plain Bible teachings have been around since long before Chauvin(J. Calvin), and his cohort J. Arminius. Whether they agree or disagree is irrelevant.

We ought to obey God rather than men.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Cutter]

Shouldn't the question be, should we dismiss anyone's biblical insights because they've done something wrong?

Depends on what the wrong was. Would you want a former pedophile pastoring your church. I believe this is one of the reasons why Paul started with such a high standard, instructing in the Book of Timothy, that a Bishop must be the husband of one wife, to avoid bringing a reproach on the gospel and the position. The standards are high and should be maintained or else you get ... well pretty much what we have today. Like someone on a video showing a protein that looks like a small t and people thinking it is some great revelation from God or an overly tattooed preacher saying God told him to kick somebody in the face. It would be easy to laugh about these things if they were not so sad and disgusting!

 

[Dale-c]

Might I suggest getting "Debating Calvinism" by Dave Hunt and James White. Then you will get both sides of the subject. And buy one for your friend too...

I suggest this as well.

Depends on what the wrong was. Would you want a former pedophile pastoring your church.

Total strawman Cutter.
Of course we don't want people unqualified as pastors but that is not the question.

If a pedophile believes in the trinity, then would you deny the trinity?
Would you?

 

[donnA]

Would you want a former pedophile pastoring your church.

I fail to see the topic of pedophilia in this thread. I was unaware Calvin was accused of pedophilia. Is there proof of that?
So apparently, according to you, only perfect people should be pastors and teachers. God's forgiveness means nothing to men then, of course it doesn't. Who cares if God forgives, right?

 

[Cutter]

So apparently, according to you, only perfect people should be pastors and teachers. God's forgiveness means nothing to men then, of course it doesn't. Who cares if God forgives, right?

No, not perfect. No one is, but does confidence play a role in who you are willing to listen to and is there a Biblical standard for the one that fills the pulpit and teachers podium?

 

[Shortandy]

Hey short,

Might I suggest getting "Debating Calvinism" by Dave Hunt and James White. Then you will get both sides of the subject. And buy one for your friend too...:jesus:

I will do that...thanks!

 

[Shortandy]

Shouldn't the question be, should we dismiss anyone's biblical insights because they've done something wrong? What about our pastors or teachers, any christian author or teacher? Do we dismiss them because they've done something wrong? Fact is, we've all done something wrong, you can't name a person (other then Jesus) who has not done something wrong. So if we're dismissing people because of doing something wrong, then we'll have to dismiss everyone.

Hey Donna we actually agree on something. That was sort of the direction my mind was taking me.

 

[jdlongmire]

I fail to see the topic of pedophilia in this thread. I was unaware Calvin was accused of pedophilia. Is there proof of that?

No, he wasn't.

To the OP - yes John Calvin was not perfect, (I know ***gasp***), but he did display a level of exegetical fidelity and scholarship that was, and still is in many ways, unmatched.

A "Calvinist" in truth is someone that holds that level of exegesis and reasoning in very high regard.

We say "Calvinist", simply as a shorthand method of defining our bond with what Calvin represents as a servant of Christ and to rebut the position of synergism in any form.

Anyone that reads his works with an open-mind cannot help but appreciate his God-given genius, even if they are not willing to accept his conclusions.

Interestingly enough, I had come to many of Calvin's conclusions before I read any of his Institutes, because he is, first and foremost, a biblicist in the truest sense of the term.

I am not "of Calvin", I am "of Christ", but I also seek to be an imitator of Christ-like men.

If you truly investigate the life and work of John Calvin, you will find him a godly man worthy of emulation. A man that loved God with all his heart, mind, soul and strength and sought to glorify Him in everything he did.