Do Baptists have a shallow view of Corporate Worship?

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Acts 2:46-47 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, ... Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

JohnDeereFan...

I agree with you 100%.

Its very frustrating for me when I occasionally visit friends churchs (more "pentecostalish" or charismatic) and leave thinking "Why cant WE have that depth of worship and joyful praise!!! Needless to say, it is completely scriptural, and so very important.(and edifying)

I come back to my church and feel like I'm in a funeral dirge during our singing. I look around and get the impression that everyone feels they will be struck dead on the spot if they show any emotion or real joy.

How has this horrible dysfuncion crept into our Baptists churces?

If we could hook our excellant teaching and preaching up with some true Holy Spirit led pentecostal style worship...there would be no stopping us.


:godisgood:

 

We must be careful not to equate pentecostal-style worship with Holy Spirit-led worship. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. The same Holy Spirit which can move us to loudest praise may also move us to a sense of quiet awe at being in the presence of God.

I have been in a charismatic service where the upbeat music was designed to produce hand-clapping, dancing, hands in the air. It was obviously contrived and not the least bit spontaneous.

In fact, the worship leader exhorted the people to clap louder, jump higher, and the beat of the drums intensified as he said urgently, "c'mon, we've got to get into the Spirit."

Let's not mistake our cultural preferences as the key to true worship.

 

Thank you for saving me the time to type that. :thumbs:

 

A few random thoughts:

Depth of worship. Haven't heard that one yet. How is it you can tell how deep someones worship is?

I am more interested in what the people I fellowship with are like on Tuesday than on Sunday.

Contemporary "worshipers" are very quick to get down on the "funeral dirge" group for being judgmental about THEIR STYLE. I think it is clear this is a two say street and those driving it are both going the wrong direction.

Also, how long until your "style" is labeled traditional? When it is, you can start this all over.

 

Trustitle...

In churches like those its normal to see people spontaneously drop down on their knees during the worship time. Its normal to see people crying as they are singing their love to God.

Needless to say, they are too. It sounds like you feel its one or the other. In truth, it can and should be both.

You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you though. In my view, if the singing praises and worship to God in a particular church can be equated with a funeral dirge, I believe something is very VERY wrong.

On the other hand, if Gods people are spontaneously (not manipulated into it) led to tears or dropping to their knees as they worship God in song, something very good is going on.

I have no idea.

Not neccesarily. As one example, classical music has been played very enthusiastically, joyfully, and with great emotion for hundreds of years now.


:godisgood:

 

This is an excellent point. Will there be a group forty years from now who are "stuck in the 90's?" That could be interesting. Will the "cutting edge" group be what is now the "traditional" group?

That could be fun, eh?

 

You have made the assumption that God is more impressed with people breaking down and crying than he is with someone just sitting there. My Grandmother would not have shown a bit of emotion in public but loved God as much as any person I have ever known. To her dying days, at age 96, she sat in her nursing home proclaiming the faithfulness and goodness of God. Had you sat next to her in church for 70 years you would have likely sat in judgment of her for failing to worship God. You would have joined my sister who failed to appreciated the sweetness of my grandmas spirit (even to the point of saying she was not saved). This same sister is now involved in a church that would possibly impress you with their tears and lively worship.

I had this same attitude toward what you call the funeral dirge, but have since seen my failure to allow others to have a relationship with God that I need not judge. As I look back, my attitude toward these people said a lot more about me than it did them.

 

Trustitl...

I never said anything like that. God can see the heart. What I was adressing is folks who are OBVIOUSLY "going through the motions" and singing "all 4 verses", in a very dead manner, of some hymn just too quickly get it over with.

Praise God.

Thats absolutely wonderful.

I dont think I would have at all. People are different from one another. What I am referring to is a situation where *everybody* is emotionless, bland, and obviously doing it just to get it over with.

I would not have agreed with your sister at all regarding your grandmothers salvation. As I said before, people are different. Regarding your sister not believing your grandmother is saved, I would vigourously have disagreed with her about that. We are not saved by singing joyfully unto the Lord, but rather by faith in Christ. Two completely different topics.

Its sounds like one that is very good with their praise and worship.

You are you, and I am me. I cant speak from your perspective, only mine.

God bless


:godisgood:

 

In the early part of the 16th century Martin Luther wrote "A Mighty Fortress is Our God," which we still sing today. Does that make it contemporary?
What about the dozens of songs composed by Charles Wesley of approximately the same time period that we still sing? Are we still stuck in the 1500's with that logic? There are some hymns that contain such depth of theology and beauty in music that make them timeless.

 

No it isn't. You are talking about "deep" spiritual worship. When something is revealed to a prophet, that is a divine act. What should that prophet do if another is already speaking?

Hold his peace.

What if the one already speaking is the third one?

Hold his peace until he is given a space next time to teach what was revealed.

The commandment is to "hold his peace," not fall to his knees spontaneously and shout and pray. Order and decorum is the rule in Christian worship.

Yes, you did. I've already pointed that out to you.

***snip Charismatic spell***

He should close his sermon and do a better job of preparing next time.

Decorum would allow a little extra time, but incessant rambling should be stopped.

Order and decorum are His commandments, not mine.

 

If the preacher runs out of time? Oh, I really don't think you'd like our church.

If the preacher isn't done "on time", then we wait. Better the Methodists beat us to the Cracker Barrel than we shortchange the preaching of God's word.

And I'd strongly suggest that you don't listen to any Paul Washer sermons if you have someplace to be. He's been known to preach two hours or more.

 

Absolutely agree.

 

So do I...

 

It is well known that if a preacher can't get across in twenty minutes what he needs to say then he hasn't prepared well enough. Why I say that is 1. Because the average attention span of any person is twenty minutes, and then their minds begin to wander, and 2. there is no need to drag out what can be said within that time frame.
Having said that, in most churches I have been at the average message is between 30-45 minutes, usually near the upper end (45 minute).

We have among us many preachers that have a radio ministry. Sometimes their alotted time for preaching may be only ten or fifteen minutes. Then they will be cut off. A fifteen minute time slot has been paid for whether or not you have finished your "last point which the Spirit has led you to preach." Obviously God has first and most importantly led you to prepare for the time slot that you have to preach in, not to leave an unfinished sermon dangling in the air.

 

You have alluded to the problem right there without even realizing it.
The church (i.e., the preacher, pastor, etc., is not in competition with Hollywood or the entertainment field. When we come to church and are in a state of mind to hear God's Word being preached, we are there to learn more about Jesus; to worship him, etc. God doesn't need to be entertained. And neither do we! But we do need to be challenged from God's Word, fed from God's Word, built up from God's Word, and in some cases sinners need to be saved. It is a known fact that the average span of a person's attention is only about twenty minutes. Most preachers exceed that anyway. If they are going to keep the focus of their congregation of Christ, and not on themselves, then they better not preach too long. We don't have apostles today. We don't have miracle workers today. Paul preached long. Eutychus did fall asleep. But Paul also performed a miracle.

The building was probably lit by oil lamps such as the ten virgins had. Perhaps the fuel was something similar to kerosene. That being the case the smoke from such vessels would have risen to the "upper loft," using up the oxygen and causing him to fall asleep more quickly than others.

Let's not put more of a stumbling block in front of our people than is necessary. We live in a busy rush-rush society, with many things competing for people's time. One preacher single-handedly can't change our society.