Do Baptists have a shallow view of Corporate Worship?

DHK SAID:

You have alluded to the problem right there without even realizing it.
The church (i.e., the preacher, pastor, etc., is not in competition with Hollywood or the entertainment field. When we come to church and are in a state of mind to hear God's Word being preached, we are there to learn more about Jesus; to worship him, etc. God doesn't need to be entertained. And neither do we! But we do need to be challenged from God's Word, fed from God's Word, built up from God's Word, and in some cases sinners need to be saved. It is a known fact that the average span of a person's attention is only about twenty minutes. Most preachers exceed that anyway. If they are going to keep the focus of their congregation of Christ, and not on themselves, then they better not preach too long. We don't have apostles today. We don't have miracle workers today. Paul preached long. Eutychus did fall asleep. But Paul also performed a miracle.

The building was probably lit by oil lamps such as the ten virgins had. Perhaps the fuel was something similar to kerosene. That being the case the smoke from such vessels would have risen to the "upper loft," using up the oxygen and causing him to fall asleep more quickly than others.

Let's not put more of a stumbling block in front of our people than is necessary. We live in a busy rush-rush society, with many things competing for people's time. One preacher single-handedly can't change our society.

You have alluded to the problem right there without even realizing it
Well I think you are either missing or avoiding the point I am making. The question of entertaining people through preaching isnt even a point of contention in this debate. No one ever advocated that so I have no idea why you are bringing it up unless you are trying to to say that simply because a person preaches longer than 20 minutes he is trying to entertain people. Is that what you are saying? Because that would be presumptious and judgemental. You don't know what peoples motives are but you should choose to believe the bet about them not the worst.

The fact is that if a person can concentrate for more than 20 minutes for entertainment sake he can surely concentrate more than 20 minutes for edification sake. Concentration is concentration. In fact if he/she has been concentrating since the beginning of the service did we not lose them 20 minutes into the service so what's the point of even preaching, we might as well all go home.

I don't know where you get this fact of..."It is a known fact that the average span of a person's concentration is only 20 minutes" known by who...give me something concrete. Concentration like memory is not concrete it can be improved on.

 

IN RESPONSE TO DHK WHO SAID

You were the one that brought up the subject of entertainment, not me:

That is not true, I did not bring up the subject of entertainment, and I certainly did not make any comparisons between corporate worship and worldly entertainment, I'm afraid that honor belongs to you DHK.
What I did do was quote some examples to show that we use our concentration in every facet of life as well as the church and that in those other facets we are quite capable of extending our concentration far beyond the "average 20 minutes" that you are convinced that we are only capable of when it comes to spiritual matters.
But instead of analysing and responding to my point you are cooking up another argument that has no bearing on the topic at hand. Are you going off on a tangent because you have no relevant intelligent answers to the questions I am posing?

So let me ask you some direct questions and see if you have the courage to answer them openly and honestly without grasping at straws as you have been doing.

1. Do you DHK concentrate for longer than 20 minutes during any activities other than listening to sermons?

2. Do you have any scientific proof that concentrating during entertainment is somehow physiologically or psychologically different than concentrating during sermons?

3. If you do not have such proof on what basis are you making these assumptions?

4. Would you say that your expectations and attitude during entertainment are different than your expectations and attitude during sermons?

5. Why is it easier for you to watch a movie than to listen to a sermon when you are doing the same thing in both, sitting, watching, listening, thinking, processing?

 

IN RESPONSE TO DHK:

The question is moot. It hardly deserves an answer. We all work 8 hour days. Those days are broken down, but many of those occupations require concentration of at least an hour or more. If you don't work you don't get paid.
Entertainment is another field entirely. Football and movies. We are not competing with Hollywood. These are unfair comparisons. In comparison to watching a movie at home on your own TV, if you want to outfit your church all with lazyboy recliners you might be taking a step in the right direction. If you want to provide your congregation snacks while they watch, there is another step forward. Do they have the freedom to walk around, take bathroom breaks at will, etc. What is it like in your home when watching a family movie? Do you have the same decorum in your own home as in your own church. Do you dress the same way?
(BTW, in our church we have hard wooden pews made out of oak).

Um, you still have not answered the question...

I am not taking the time to look up all the research now, but there have been plenty of studies done on this subject. Even Billy Graham said the same.

Er, just as I suspected. Oh yes, Billy Graham said it, there's an authority for you, I mean if ol Billy said it it must be correct hey, he also says that God listens to the prayers of Muslims by the way.

There is plenty of proof. I don't have the time to dig it all up now.

puuuk puk puk puk, cocker doodle doooo!!!

Are yours? Is this a serious question?
Do you come with the same attitude to a football game when you come to worship in a church? Really? I'd like to see what goes on in your church. Or conversely, I would like to see you at a football game? Do you stand and sing hymns of praise everytime a touchdown is scored?

Yet another one unanswered. Are you trying to be like Jesus by answering questions with questions? What I meant is maybe you can concentrate longer when entertained because you make up your mind before had to enjoy it but it seems when it comes to shurch you're determmined to be critical and miserable at every opportunity when a minute or 2 is stolen from your Sunday football watching!

I have already answered that question for you.
Here is another reason. The devil doesn't oppose football games.

On the contrary, you have not answered a single thing my friend and becuase the devil by implication opposes the church you should desire all the more to sit under the Wortd of God to prepare you to deal with his onslaught instead of rushing off to plonk yourself happily in front of that idolatorous box, which makes him(the devil) exceedingly happy!

 

DHK SAID:


Here is an anonymous quote:


Quote:
The reasons why I'm giving up sports: football in the fall, baseball in the summer, basketball in the winter. I've had it all. I quit attending sports once and for all, and here are my 11 excuses:

Quote:

1. Every time I went, they asked for money.
2. The people I sat next to didn't seem friendly.
3. The seats were too hard and not comfortable at all.
4. I went to many games but the coach never came to call on me.
5. The referees made decisions that I couldn't agree with.
6. The game went into overtime and I was late getting home.
7. The band played numbers I'd never heard before and it wasn't my style of music.
8. It seems the games are always scheduled when I want to do other things.
9. I suspect that I was sitting next to some hypocrites. They came to see their friends and they talked during the whole game.
10. I was taken to too many games by my parents when I was growing up.
11. I hate to wait in the traffic jam in the parking lot after the game.


?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????...er is it just me or is there 1 item missing from your post DHK?

Not sure what it is huh, here, let me tell you...........................................................

A POINT, FOR PETE'S SAKE, A VALID, RELEVANT, ARGUMENTATIVE POINT!

Now let's start again shall we?