Watchman Nee

[webdog]

Just been given a book of his The Normal Christian Life, and before reading it wanted some further insight into the man and his beliefs. I only really know he planted churches in China, was persecuted, and died the year I was born.

Any feedback is much appreciated...

I tried doing a search here, but "nee" was deemed too short to include in the search criteria, so I have nothing...

 

[Marcia]

I've posted on Nee before but don't know if I have time to find all those links and resources. I do not like what I've read of Nee - he taught some very strange things. He taught some things as though they are scripture although it's actually his own ideas.

I once read through several of his teachings/sermons and found them bizarre. He did not use scripture well to support what he was saying. He had inner and subjective leadings. Many Baptists like him for some reason and I was criticized for saying anything negative about him. Sorry, I use scripture as the measure.

He was more a mystic than anything else.

Check out this link:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/n01.html

Excerpt___During this time Nee also professed to be led by inner leadings. He justified this subjective means of revelation by saying that the ways of God are not known by external means but by "internal registrations." Again, he was rejecting external authority.​

Nee had his own eclectic system developed when he encountered another woman in 1935. Elizabeth Fischbacker introduced him to Pentecostal theology and speaking in tongues. Nee did not regard tongues as unbiblical but never spoke in tongues himself.​

In 1942, Nee took over the running of his brother George's chemical factory. He consigned all the property to the church and sought to have the church members as the factory workers. As a result he contradicted previous positions he had taken regarding disassociation of the church and business. In 1949, Mao-Tse Tung came to power and Communist China was born. Nee, a factory owner, was seen as an imperialist and eventually was jailed. He remained in prison until his death in 1972.​

The teachings that developed over Nee's lifetime and out of his encounters with these women and the teachings they directed him to are dangerous to Christians seeking clear guidelines to follow. Space allows a listing of only a few of the problems in Nee's teachings:​

• Nee outlines no method of Bible study and interpretation and appears to deny evangelical hermeneutics. In his book Spiritual Authority, he sets himself and his elders up as the unquestionable authorities. By all appearances, Nee saw himself not as a servant but as a guru.
• One gets the impression from Nee that the Bible was not nearly as important as Christians generally consider it. In his book The Ministry of God's Word, Nee says, "Words alone cannot be considered God's Word." In this book, Nee becomes very philosophical, mystical and incoherent. He says that only as we deliver the Word in terms of the "reality behind it," using what he calls "Holy Spirit memory" and "presenting the pictures as well as speaking the words" will the words be correct; otherwise they are not real.
• Nee overemphasizes emotions. In The Ministry of God's Word, he claims that the effectiveness of a preacher's delivery is a product of his emotions. If a preacher does not feel emotionally charged in delivery, "the Spirit is stuck" and the "Spirit is inevitably arrested," Nee says. He continues, "The Spirit flows through the channel of emotion." Then he arrives at a strange conclusion: "Nose in the Scripture stands for feeling. Smelling is a most delicate act, man's feeling is most delicate." Therefore, Nee says, a preacher in speaking needs to "mix feelings with the words spoken, else his words are dead. If our feeling lags behind, our words are stripped of the spirit." To say as Nee does, on page 210, that the Holy Spirit only rides on feeling is dangerous.
• Nee uses terms imprecisely. One example is his writing about a minister's receiving "revelations" in his "Holy Spirit memory" and those revelations being remembered in us by the Holy Spirit. This sort of metaphysical mumbo jumbo is impossible to understand, since there is no direct scriptural reference to a "Holy Spirit memory."

When a Christian begins to see Nee as a guide in determining the value of other Christian writers, or sees Nee's writings as a key to spirituality, that person is headed for trouble. Nee's presuppositions are suspect in light of the Word of God. His books provide grist for cult groups such as The Way, The Alamo Foundation, the Children of God and other groups. The astute believer should watch out for Watchman Nee.​

 

[Marcia]

Webdog, also check these out:

http://www.thebereans.net/arm-wnee.shtml

The article at the above link says that in the book you are about to read, Nee teaches that Jesus is the Holy Spirit:

In his book The Normal Christian Faith published by Hong Kong Church Book Room (1977), a statement can be read as follows,

A passage we read earlier says that we no longer know Christ after the flesh. Now if what we believe in is merely an outward religion then we will need a Holy Land, a Mecca, or a Rome to be our center, for us to go for worship and service. But what we believe in is a Christ inside of us. We know that He is both the God in heaven, as well as the Lord in us. Not only is He the very Creator, He was also the Christ that put on the flesh. And now He is in us as the Holy Spirit. The Christ in the flesh is over! Now the Christ in the Spirit lives forever in us. [2]
​

Another one can be read on page 224 where it is clearly taught by Nee himself that Jesus when after resurrection was transformed into the Holy Spirit,

Now God has accomplished everything in Christ. He died and was resurrected, and has been transformed into the Holy Spirit; He is now ready to come into you. [3]​

I have read before that Nee was unclear on the Trinity and seemed to hold to modalism.

Also see
http://www.ehow.com/about_4615161_watchman-nee-cults.html

Excerpt_____Watchman Nee demanded universal and total obedience from his disciples. He preached subservience through the philosophy of "covering," insisting that recruits must show unconditional faith in a delegated authority, whom they should attempt to imitate. The instructions for imitation extended beyond the realm of the church and into employment and lifestyle. He insisted that every city should only have one church and proclaimed his churches the sole institutions approved of by God. When Watchman Nee and his spiritual compatriot, Witness Lee, organized the proliferation of the Local Church, also called The Lord's Recovery, many of these cult-like doctrines and practices sparked controversy.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Webdog...

I have "The Normal Christian Life" It is generally considered to be a christian classic. It was the 1st of his that I picked up, due to all the recommendations.

Very rich. Extremely beneficial. A great blessing.

After that one I picked up a few others and found them good as well, but not as good as "Normal". (guess thats why its considered a "must have" classic) :thumbs:

With the others I have read I found them to be good, but there were some things that I didnt completly agree with. But nothing heretical at all.


:godisgood:

 

[Marcia]

Webdog...

I have "The Normal Christian Life" It is generally considered to be a christian classic. It was the 1st of his that I picked up, due to all the recommendations.

Very rich. Extremely beneficial. A great blessing.

After that one I picked up a few others and found them good as well, but not as good as "Normal". (guess thats why its considered a "must have" classic) :thumbs:

With the others I have read I found them to be good, but there were some things that I didnt completly agree with. But nothing heretical at all.


:godisgood:

What about the statements about Jesus being the Holy Spirit? And that Jesus is no longer in flesh? (See quotes above)

 

[Alive in Christ]

Marcia,

"What about the statements about Jesus being the Holy Spirit? And that Jesus is no longer in flesh? (See quotes above)"

I read your quotes and I think he was probably saying it that way to make some kind of point. Or, there could have been a problem in translating the Chinese into English.

Regardless, having read the book 2 or 3 times through the years I have never come away with the impression that he is a oneness pentecostal or anything like that.

When he speaks of Jesus, he speaks of Jesus. When he speaks of the Holy Spirit, he speaks of the Holy Spirit. Same with God the Father.


:godisgood:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Marcia,


Here is an excerpt from the book. Its from the chapter "The Holy Spirit"

It is in relation to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I cant copy and past, since all I have is the actual book right here, so I have to literally type this out...so please dont ask for a bunch more! raying:

(bolding mine)

"Upon what basis was the Spirit was 1st given to the Lord Jesus to be poured out upon His people? It was upon the fact of His exaltation to heaven.This passage makes it quite clear that the Holy Spirit was poured out because Jesus was exalted. The outpouring of the Spirit has no relation to your merits or mine, but only to the merits of the Lord Jesus. The question of what we are does not come into consideration here, but only what "He" is. He is glorified, therefore the Spirit is poured out.

It seems clear to me in this passage that Nee has no problem whatsoever differentiating between the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.


:godisgood:

 

[Marcia]

Marcia,


Here is an excerpt from the book. Its from the chapter "The Holy Spirit"

It is in relation to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I cant copy and past, since all I have is the actual book right here, so I have to literally type this out...so please dont ask for a bunch more! raying:

(bolding mine)



It seems clear to me in this passage that Nee has no problem whatsoever differentiating between the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.


:godisgood:

But he makes "the Spirit" sound impersonal. And what does it mean for "the Spirit to be given to Jesus?"

I am not the only one with concerns about Watchman Nee. His theology is known for being ambiguous and he did write unbiblical views about the Trinity and other areas, such as saying Jesus no longer has a body.

The quotes I posted are not due to translation from Chinese; they are from Nee's thinking.

The Local Church, founded by Witness Lee, a follower of Nee, is known for some of the same problematic teachings Nee is known for, especially teachings on the Trinity and the exclusivity of the Local Church (Local Church is the name Witness Lee gave to the "church" which he said was the only true church and there could only be one in each city).

 

[Alive in Christ]

Marcia,

Here it is from the "horses mouth" as they say.

This is an organization devoted to answering false charges against Watchman Nees teachings. This particular article adresses Nee and Witness Lee's teachings regarding the triune nature of God. (A link will be at the end of this quote.)

WITNESS LEE & THE LOCAL CHURCHES REPLY TO THE "BIBLE ANSWER MAN"


Concerning the Scriptural Meaning of the Triune God


The charges and false accusations made by the Bible Answer Man concerning the belief of the local churches about the Trinity reveal that he is uninformed concerning the meaning behind our usage of Biblical terminology. We prefer to speak with the language of Scripture when speaking of the Trinity. However, due to the history of the development of trinitatrian dogma, other unscriptural terms were introduced in order to define what the Trinity is not and to safeguard against heresy. The heresies of dynamic monarchianism, modalistic monarchianism and tri-theism have caused some theologians to flinch at the usage of any terminology that sounds like these classical trinitarian heresies. The Bible Answer Man falls into this category.


The local churches prefer to speak with Biblical terminology when referring to the Triune God. For example, to say the Son is called the Everlasting Father (Isa. 9:6) and the Lord is the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17) are Biblical quotations. The interpretation put on these quotations makes all the difference in the world. There is a proper and improper use of the Scriptures. However, regardless of their misuse by heretics we have chosen to stay with the language sanctioned by the Holy Spirit to utter the Triune God in our experience, rather than eliminate a part of the Word of God because heresy has put a false connotation upon it.


The Bible Answer Man has falsely charged Witness Lee and the local churches by putting a heretical interpretation on our usage of Biblical quotations. For the benefit of the Bible Answer Man, his associates and Christian public, we now present a positive statement concerning the scriptural meaning of the Triune God.


In the Scriptures, God has revealed Himself as triune. This revelation means that God is both Three and One at the same time. He is the Three-One God. Therefore, all Christians can equally confess that God is simultaneously Three and One.


The Bible doesn’t attempt to analyze how God is Three and One at the same time; indeed, the Scriptures are not even aware of any problem connected with understanding the Trinity. In fact, the New Testament passages that reveal the Triune God are directly related to man’s experience of God, rather than to theological definitions. The following points prayerfully considered will reveal the truth concerning the Trinity.


The scriptural facts. There are at least seven scriptural facts that reveal the Triune God.


God is uniquely one—Isa. 44:6; 1Cor. 8:4,6.
God is triune—Gen. 1:26; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14.
All three are God—1 Pet. 1:2; Heb. 1:8; Acts 5:3-4.
All three are eternal—Isa. 9:6; John 1:1; Heb. 9:14.
All three exist at the same time—Matt.3:16-17.
All three are one—John 10:30; 14:8-11; 2 Cor. 3:17.
All three are in us—Gal. 4:6; Eph. 4:6; Rom. 8:10; John 14:17.


The scriptural terminology. The truth concerning the Trinity should be expressed in the same scriptural terminology that is given to us in the Bible. This principle can be seen by comparing 2 Peter 1:20-21 with 1 Corinthians 2:13: “…no prophesy of scripture is of private interpretation.…but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.…which things also we speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words” (ASV). It is better and safer to keep the language selected by the Holy Spirit to convey the various aspects of the Triune God. By using scriptural terminology in speaking of the Trinity, we will preserve both the objective revelation in the Bible and the subjective experience of God.


The scriptural principle. Apparently the Scriptures revealing God being Three and One at the same time are contradictory. Actually this seeming contradiction is a revelation of the scriptural principle of the two aspects or two foldness of divine truth. Robert Govett (A.D. 1813-1901), a fellow of Worcester College, Oxford, a highly esteemed Biblical scholar, deals with all important but much neglected principle in his booklet, The Twofoldness of Divine Truth. Concerning two apparently contradictory aspects of a scriptural truth, Govett says:


But are they not contradictory? That cannot be, for they are both parts of the Word of God, and contradictions cannot both be true. Both, then, are to be received whether we can reconcile them or no. Their claim on our reception is not that we can unite them, but that God has testified both….The same twofoldness of truth appears in the Scripture statements concerning the nature of God. It affirms His unity….But the Scripture as plainly affirms the distinction of persons in the Godhead. “Unity in plurality and plurality in unity” is the assertion here. This master-truth, which takes its rise in the nature of the Godhead, flows out into all His works.

(continued next post...)

 

[Alive in Christ]

Continueing...

"How could God be Three and One at the same time? Simply because the Word of God distinctly affirms both truth. Both the Three and the One should be equally embraced without question.


The scriptural understanding. Firstly, a scriptural understanding of the Trinity is related to how God revealed Himself and made Himself known on the stage of history. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit appear from Genesis to Revelation as a threefold unveiling of the one living God to fulfill his purpose with man. This is the economy of God in creation, redemption and sanctification. By this economy in the Scriptures we understand that God is triune.


Secondly, a scriptural understanding of the Trinity is also related to personal experience. Without experience there is no proper understanding of the Triune God. Paul makes this clear by speaking of the Trinity in the context of his actual experience. For example, Galatians 4:6, says, “And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.” The Triune God is here revealed within the limits of Paul’s heart. Thus, the Father, Son, and Spirit must be experienced within our hearts in order to scripturally understand that He is triune.


The scriptural relationship. The scriptural revelation of the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity is found in two types of Scriptures. The first type is the verses that reveal that the Father, Son, and Spirit mutually indwell One another. One example is John 14:9b-10 where Jesus says: “…he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works” (ASV). The relationship between the Father and the Son is one of mutual indwelling. That is, each Person interpenetrates and coinheres the Others. This mutual indwelling and interpenetration reveals the distinction within the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and also preserves the fact that the Triune God is uniquely One.


The second type of Scripture showing the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity is the verses that specifically state that One Person of the Triune God is Another. Examples of this type are found in Isaiah 9:6 and 2 Corinthians 3:17. In one the Son is called the Everlasting Father and in the other the Lord (referring to Christ) is identified with the Spirit, viz., “Now the Lord is the Spirit.” These verses revealing the Persons being each Other must be understood with the verses revealing the Persons mutually indwelling each Other. That is, the understanding behind Isaiah’s utterance “the Son is called…the Everlasting Father” is Jesus’ utterance “…I am in the Father and the Father in me…” Both utterances are God’s Word and must be taken together. One utterance identifies the Persons, the other reveals the mutual indwelling of the Persons. By putting these two types of verses together, the Bible interprets itself.


From these Scriptures we can see that the oneness within the Godhead is of such a nature that the work of One Person is ascribed to the Other, and all Three function as One with One Name (Matt. 28:19) as One God (1 Cor. 8:4, 6).

Dr. Augustus Strong in his Systematic Theology, pages 330-334, fully discusses this scriptural relationship between the Persons of the Triune God. Speaking of the three Persons having one essence he says:
This oneness of essence explains the fact that, while Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as respects their personality, are distinct subsistences, there is an intercommunion of persons and an immanence of one divine person in another which permits the peculiar work of one to be ascribed, with a single limitation, to either of the others, and the manifestation of one to be recognized in the manifestation of another. The limitation is simply this, that although the Son was sent by the Father, and the Spirit by the Father and the Son, it cannot be said vice versa that the Father is sent either by the Son, or by the Spirit. The Scripture representations of this intercommunion prevent us from conceiving of the distinctions called Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as involving separation between them…. This intercommunion also explains the designation of Christ as “the Spirit,” and of the Spirit as “the Spirit of Christ,” as in 1 Corinthians 15:45—“the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit”; 2 Corinthians 3:17—“Now the Lord is the Spirit”; Galatians 4:6—“sent forth the Spirit of his Son”; Philippians 1:19—“supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.”


The scriptural meaning. The scriptural meaning of the Trinity is for God to be experienced by man. All the verses related to the revelation of the Trinity are in the context of experience. When the Trinity becomes merely a dogma of theological debate, the scriptural meaning of the Triune God is lost.


God as triune desires that we experience Him by firstly being baptized “…into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19); secondly, that we daily enjoy Him in our experience as Paul declared: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14).


This is the fourth of five articles in this Reply to the “Bible Answer Man”

Hope this helps.

Here is the link...

http://www.contendingforthefaith.co...wer-man/appendix/conc-scriptural-meaning.html

 

[Marcia]

I know what the Local Church says. They are a cult, according to many researchers. They say one thing and teach another. I have many friends in couter cult ministries and have been keeping up somewhat with the Local Church.

Also, whatever the Local Church may say, it does not do away with the very problematic statements made by Watchman Nee.

A group of theologians and scholars has declared the Local Church to have such problematic teachings that they are at the very least heterodox.

Ankerberg has the Local Church in his Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions.

See these links:

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/379-local-church-encyclopedia-of-cults-and-new-religions

One example of The Local Church’s serious departure from biblical Christianity is Witness Lee’s teaching on the deification of the believer: “Sooner or later, you have to be made God…. All of God’s redeemed people will eventually become gods as the very God in life, in nature, and in appearance but not in the Godhead.”17 In the October 2002 issue of Affirmation & Critique, a journal published by Living Stream Ministry, an article titled “Becoming God” states, “Because we have been born of God, we have the life and nature of God, and in this sense we are God.”18 The Local Church goes to great lengths to clarify that “there are permanent boundaries to our deification: In Christ we become God in life and in nature for God’s expression, but we do not become God in the Godhead or as an object of worship.”19

...One of the more significant examples of serious doctrinal deviation relates to The Local Church’s teachings on the Trinity, and this is especially evident in their current publications and from a very careful reading of some of their websites.25 Biblical Christianity has long taught that there is only one God, who is comprised of three persons. These three persons of the Trinity are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and are co–eternal and always co–existing. In other words, all three persons of the Trinity are distinctly co–existent at all times. The Father is always and only the Father, the Son is always and only the Son, and the Holy Spirit is always and only the Holy Spirit. By contrast, notice what Witness Lee taught about the members of the Trinity:

• <LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 15px">“…the entire Godhead, the Triune God, became flesh.”26 <LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 15px">“The Father was expressed among men in the Son, and the Son became the Spirit to come into men. The Father is in the Son, and the Son became the Spirit.”27 <LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 15px">“…the Lord Christ is the Spirit and the Spirit is the Lord Christ….”28 <LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 15px">“The Father is not only the Father, but is also the Son.”29
• “…God the Father is also the Spirit (John 4:24). Hence, all three Persons of the Godhead are the Spirit.”30

<MORE>

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/docs/Gomes-Ankerberg_Letter_(analysis_of_LC_quotes)2.pdf

This is just some of the info with evidence of the problems of the Local Church.

 

[Alive in Christ]

"I know what the Local Church says. They are a cult, according to many researchers."

According to researchers??

In the material I posted they do a great job of showing that Hank Hannagraph and the Christian Research Institute are flat out WRONG regarding the Local Churches understanding of the triune nature of God.

I prefer to come to my own conclusions regarding these things, rather than trust "researchers" all the time. The material I posted from them seems very clear that they are fine with the Trinity.

And if there were lots and lots of problematic (heretical) teaching in the books of Watchman Nee that I have read, I would have recognized those teachings. But I cruised through them fine and was blessed.

They certainly are more "pentecostal-ish" than most Baptist churchs are, but surely you agree that that does not automatically make a group heretical.



:godisgood:

 

[Marcia]

According to researchers??

In the material I posted they do a great job of showing that Hank Hannagraph and the Christian Research Institute are flat out WRONG regarding the Local Churches understanding of the triune nature of God.

I prefer to come to my own conclusions regarding these things, rather than trust "researchers" all the time. The material I posted from them seems very clear that they are fine with the Trinity.

And if there were lots and lots of problematic (heretical) teaching in the books of Watchman Nee that I have read, I would have recognized those teachings. But I cruised through them fine and was blessed.

They certainly are more "pentecostal-ish" than most Baptist churchs are, but surely you agree that that does not automatically make a group heretical.



:godisgood:

It is not just researchers but many prominent sound Christians such as Ankerberg as well as theologians and others who have found problems with Nee and Lee (I posted some of the statements at the beginning but you dismissed it as maybe being a translation mistake).

The issue with the Local Church does not have anything to do with being "pentecostal-ish" but with their theology. If you would look at the facts at the links I posted, you would see that there are strong reasons to classify the Local Church as a cult.

Don't you think Ankerberg would have a good reason to include the Local Church in his book? He would never do this without solid evidence.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Marcia,

This is from the same link I posted earlier...

"Watchman Nee’s ministry of spiritual nourishment and his unique ability to expound the Scripture along with his firm testimony in the face of persecution has been recognized by most Christians as a significant contribution to the Christian faith in the twentieth century. His writings have been appreciated by Christians around the world and translated into many languages. His book The Normal Christian Life has been widely hailed as a Christian classic. He has been quoted and praised by Christian leaders such as Jerry Falwell, Corrie ten Boom, and Warren Wiersbe. He has been included along with such influential Christians as Martin Luther, John Wesley, Hudson Taylor, John Wycliffe, D.L. Moody, Charles Spurgeon, John Bunyan, William Tyndale, and George Whitefield in collections such as Barbour Publishing’s Heroes of the Faith series, David Lindstedt’s Faith’s Great Heroes, Geoffrey Hanks’ Seventy Great Christians, and Who’s Who in Christian History, edited by J.D. Douglas and W.C. Phillip."

You are saying that all of those people are wrong and decieved about the supposed *heresy* of Watchman Nee?

All of those people reccomending his teachings are decieved?


http://www.contendingforthefaith.com/index.html


:godisgood:

 

[Revmitchell]

Watchman Nee did teach heresy as he held to Millennial Exclusion:

He pointed out that the redemption of Christ was accomplished through His vicarious and redemptive death for the sinners. When we the sinners receive this redemption, we are forgiven, cleansed, justified, and reconciled to God. Based on Christ’s redemption, God in His salvation forgives, cleanses, justifies, reconciles, and regenerates us through Christ’s resurrection and renews, separates, and sanctifies us through His Spirit. Furthermore, the Spirit transforms us through the life-element of the pneumatic Christ, conforming us to the image of God’s firstborn Son, Christ, and finally glorifying us with the divine glory into which Christ has entered.

This salvation which God accomplished through Christ’s death and resurrection and through the Holy Spirit’s work of regeneration, renewing, separation, sanctification, transformation, conformation, and glorification is different from the reward which God will give to the believers at the time of Christ’s coming. God’s salvation is based on grace, which is different from the law, and is not based on man’s works according to the law. God’s reward is based on the overcoming life which believers in Christ live out after they are redeemed and saved, and this reward is through faith, by Christ’s resurrection life, and by the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit. This reward is also based on the work, in Christ and by the Holy Spirit, of the building up of the church, the Body of Christ, which accomplishes God’s eternal plan (economy). God’s salvation is eternal; it includes saving us from our past sins, our present bondage of sin, and our temptations and failures into the ultimate enjoyment and full taste of the Triune God with all His riches in the New Jerusalem in the new heaven and the new earth. God’s reward is dispensational and is limited to our reigning and obtaining glory together with Christ in the millennial kingdom during the manifestation of the kingdom.

http://www.watchmannee.org/major-teachings.html

 

[Revmitchell]

I am not the only one with concerns about Watchman Nee. .

No your not.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Good grief, Rev Mitchell.

All that is being articulated in your Nee quote is that justification is by grace through faith alone, while our rewards (or loss of them) are based on our faithfullness.

That is normal "evangelical doctrine 101".

At the end he makes clear that all of us will be part of the millenial kingdom AND eternity.


:godisgood:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Rev Mitchell....


While we are on the topic, because the "general council" of this web-site deems a particular group as teaching "heresy" does not make it so. I respectfully disagree with the charge.

I have dug into the ME folks website with all of their teachings. I differ from them in some areas, but they are CERTAINLY not heretics.

Same with the Grace Evangelical Society, who have also, imo, been falsely accused of heresy.

I am saddened at how quickly we Baptists will throw out the charge of "HERETIC" towards brothers and sisters who simply see some non-essentials differently than we do.


:godisgood:

 

[Marcia]

Marcia,

This is from the same link I posted earlier...



You are saying that all of those people are wrong and decieved about the supposed *heresy* of Watchman Nee?

All of those people reccomending his teachings are decieved?


http://www.contendingforthefaith.com/index.html


:godisgood:

You can't trust anything from this site. This site, Contending for the Faith, is a Local Church affiliated site! So of course they defend the Local Church and Watchman Nee!


So all you are doing is quoting the Local Church defending themselves. They are very deceptive.

 

[Marcia]

Here's more deception from the Local Church:

The Local Church includes a number of organizations that not always clearly reveal their connection to the movement. These organizations include Living Stream Ministry (publishing arm), Sword Distributing, The Lord's Recovery, Church of Recovery, Bibles for America, Bibles for New Zealand, Christian Websites, Amana Christian Bookstore, Emanna (devotions).

The Local Church publishes the Recovery Version of the Bible.

Related web sites include, "Christian Websites," "Contending for the Faith," "Emanna"