Wordly music or Christian Lyrics?

[annsni]

Thanks! This is exactly what I was getting at. These other replies show that this music is really moving into the church (Christ's Church). I just do not understand why people would go back to the way that they lived their lives before they were saved. I guess that they were not discipled right and that they decided (without thinking about it) that they did not want to change. God demands a changed life. The fruit that our lives yield is what shows that we are a Christian.

Well, before I was saved, I was listening to Sesame Street and Romper Room. I promise I don't listen to that music anymore.

God demands a changed life. Did you eat steak before you were saved? Do you eat it now? Well, God demands a changed life. Why do you still eat what you ate before you were saved? How about your car? Did you sell your car and buy a new car? Because that old car would keep you in your old life. How about clothing? Did you change your unsaved suit to a saved suit?

The music I listen to absolutely shows that I am a Christian. While I still enjoy many of the songs of my youth (80s music - great stuff), the songs that I have playing in my car - that I have on my iPod in the kitchen and the songs I sing in the shower are worship songs. Not worldly songs - but songs that sing of the greatness of my Savior. Trust me, I know what the world listens to and it's not "Indescribable".

 

[annsni]

Man, seems like someone's got their tighty whities in a bunch!

Angry much? Maybe it's the music you're listening to.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

As I've said before, we Presbyterians normally like the music of dead, white males. Our "contemporary" service pales in comparison to the really cool churches here (Calvary, SBC, Vineyard, etc.).

That being said, don't the words of a song make the song a Christian song??

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Well, before I was saved, I was listening to Sesame Street and Romper Room. I promise I don't listen to that music anymore.

God demands a changed life. Did you eat steak before you were saved? Do you eat it now? Well, God demands a changed life. Why do you still eat what you ate before you were saved? How about your car? Did you sell your car and buy a new car? Because that old car would keep you in your old life. How about clothing? Did you change your unsaved suit to a saved suit?

The music I listen to absolutely shows that I am a Christian. While I still enjoy many of the songs of my youth (80s music - great stuff), the songs that I have playing in my car - that I have on my iPod in the kitchen and the songs I sing in the shower are worship songs. Not worldly songs - but songs that sing of the greatness of my Savior. Trust me, I know what the world listens to and it's not "Indescribable".

Ann -- you know that this a passionate subject and no logic is permissable. BTW, I saw Chris Tomlin sing "Indescribable" last week in a worhip concert. It was not a "wordly" concert either.

 

[corndogggy]

I just do not understand why people would go back to the way that they lived their lives before they were saved. I guess that they were not discipled right and that they decided (without thinking about it) that they did not want to change.

So going from listening to the band called Lamb of God to listening to Chris Tomlin isn't a change? :thumbs: Oh those heathens who hang on to their old ways. :BangHead:

Believe me when I say that it can get MUCH worse than the music you are condemning. You should be happy that it's available. The old gospel tunes sung in the most boring way possible just aren't pulling their weight anymore when it comes to converting folks.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Here we go again!

From the book of Judgmentalism, Chapter 1

1 Thou shalt hearken not unto the harmonic, melodious sounds of music created after 1800 AD.
2 It is like a sweet muse, calling to seduce the weak and unaware.
3 For its sweet sound is a product of the deceiver
4 who tricks us with lyrical praising of the LORD, thy God,
5 yet soundeth like the evil that is known as "Contemporary".
6 Thou shalt notice that "Contemporary" soundeth asimilar to "contempt",
7 which is what God holdeth toward such praise music. 'Tis truly abomination unto the LORD.

Seriously, what a load of tired, old baloney. This song has been going on for years. Even 30 years later, I get blessed with some of the great songs of artists like Keith Green, Phil Keaggy, The Imperials, The Archers, Pat Terry, and many other early CCM artists. What next? A rerun of the old crock of hooey about "backwards masking"??

 

[tinytim]

To bad I do not read my opinions into Scripture, but instead I remember what God says about a topic while I read other portions of Scripture. It is called comparing Scripture with Scripture instead of taking verses out of context and trying to sound smart by typing things such as "I didn't know CCM existed in John's day! Wow..." Go ahead and mock, but when you give an account for what you did in your life you can answer for this one. Also the next time you type the word Scripture maybe you should capitalize it because at least you will look like you have respect unto it.

Whoa.. someone has their breeches in a wad!

Chill out...

HOW dare you insinuate that I don't respect scripture....

Even the KJV doesn't capitalize the word.. .see:

(Daniel 10:21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and [there is] none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
(Mark 12:10) And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
(Mark 15:28) And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
(Luke 4:21) And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
(John 2:22) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
(John 7:38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(John 7:42) Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
(John 10:35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
(John 13:18) I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
(John 17:12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
(John 19:24) They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
(John 19:28) After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
(John 19:36) For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
(John 19:37) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
(John 20:9) For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
(Acts 1:16) Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
(Acts 8:32) The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
(Acts 8:35) Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
(Romans 4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
(Romans 9:17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
(Romans 10:11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Romans 11:2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
(Galatians 3:8) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
(Galatians 3:22) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(Galatians 4:30) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(1 Timothy 5:18) For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer [is] worthy of his reward.
(2 Timothy 3:16) All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(James 2:8) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
(James 2:23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
(James 4:5) Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
(1 Peter 2:6) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
(2 Peter 1:20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

You come on this board with your meesly 20 posts and your legalistic guns are blazing..

Learn some rules of Grammar before you start sounding like Mr. Bigshot!

If you don't like people praising God with CCM.. then you might want to stay out of Heaven...

 

[padredurand]

I have a confession to make. I was listening to the Allman Brothers this evening and I enjoyed it. I used to like "Whipping Post" but now that there is a dead horse tied to it.... :BangHead:

Issac Watts was widely criticized for his hymns because they were not words of Scripture....

...some of his hymns are not straightforward verse translations of Psalms or other songs taken from the Scriptures, and for this Watts was criticized by those who thought it wrong to sing "uninspired hymns". He replied that, "...if we can pray to God in sentences that we have made up ourselves (instead of confining ourselves to the Our Father and other prayers taken directly from the Scriptures), then surely we can sing to God in sentences that we have made up ourselves". He added that the Psalms do not deal with specifically Christian themes except in hidden language, and that it is fitting that Christians should include in their worship open and clear proclamations of the acts of God in Christ.

Source

I'm sure somebody commented on how his hymns were so much like tavern songs and they were making good Psalm singing Christians too worldly.

 

[securityofficer2008]

You come on this board with your meesly 20 posts and your legalistic guns are blazing..

Learn some rules of Grammar before you start sounding like Mr. Bigshot!

If you don't like people praising God with CCM.. then you might want to stay out of Heaven...
[/size]

So, because I only have 20 posts that makes me ignorant? You must be some deep theological professor then, right? Try again.

I would rather be on the legalistic side of things than to be on the liberal side of things. Hmmmmm....Let's see what side you are on......you are on the fence [personal attack edited]

How dare you say that CCM is going to be in heaven? [personal attacks edited]

 

[securityofficer2008]

Believe me when I say that it can get MUCH worse than the music you are condemning. You should be happy that it's available. The old gospel tunes sung in the most boring way possible just aren't pulling their weight anymore when it comes to converting folks.

As I said before, show me where converting sinners comes into play with music. I want some Scripture to back this up. Evangelism in the Scriptures has nothing to do with music and music has nothing to do with Evangelism in the Scriptures.

I do agree that some old gospel songs are being sung in a drawn out boring way. However, I still listen to them and am blessed when they are sung. In a few years you will be probably saying that we need a new Bible because the old one isn't pulling its weight anymore. God help you to see the steps that you are taking away from the truth.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

So, because I only have 20 posts that makes me ignorant? You must be some deep theological professor then, right? Try again.

I would rather be on the legalistic side of things than to be on the liberal side of things. Hmmmmm....Let's see what side you are on......you are on the fence (one foot on God's side and one foot on the world's side). To bad the fence is still on the Devil's territory Mr. Bigshot!

How dare you say that CCM is going to be in heaven? God help your liberal anything goes brain. Next you will be saying that homosexuals and idolaters will be in heaven too, right? You are so blinded by the CCM that Satan is using that you could not see God work if you tried.

Personal insults are against the rules here. Have you run out of lucid arguments, so you now resort to ad hominem attacks? You may be surprised who you find in heaven. Maybe even Tim!

I will say this...I never thought I'd see Tim called a liberal! :laugh:

 

[rbell]

What are you five?

It's called humor. Perhaps you could find some on eBay.

My point is this: your position is one of preference, not Scriptural precedent.

Now...is discussion possible, or do you have more insults to hurl?

 

[annsni]

As I said before, show me where converting sinners comes into play with music. I want some Scripture to back this up. Evangelism in the Scriptures has nothing to do with music and music has nothing to do with Evangelism in the Scriptures.

I do agree that some old gospel songs are being sung in a drawn out boring way. However, I still listen to them and am blessed when they are sung. In a few years you will be probably saying that we need a new Bible because the old one isn't pulling its weight anymore. God help you to see the steps that you are taking away from the truth.

So singing Christian songs is about blessing you?

Wow - I listen to contemporary stuff and MY goal is to worship the Creator and bless Him. It's not about me. Maybe that's the benefit of the contemporary stuff. It's not self-centered.

 

[annsni]

I reported the post rbell. What was posted shows no sign of love for a fellow believer, no grace and no class. That was sad to see.

 

[rbell]

mister security...

In an earlier post, you accused me of being five.

I have a girl who is four. When it comes ot getting mad and slinging insults, she already has you beat.

First, you need to realize that there are many of us in here who have come to our position by searching the Scriptures. Many of us have read Al Menconi, Bill Gothard, Frank Garlock, Steve Camp, Dennis Jernigan, and more. We've looked at the arguments. And--you may be surprised--many of us have vetoed many songs from worship services, from multiple genres; because it did not do what a song of praise should do.

Second, you have yet to offer a Scriptural basis for how you are able to condemn this music you don't like (of course, what you call "CCM," someone else may call "traditional," or "gospel").

Third, no one is suggesting that all music called Christian is appropriate for worship. We don't sing "Three Blind Mice" at church...doesn't mean it's evil (unless a murderous farmer's wife pushes it over the edge)...but it isn't appropriate for worship.

Third, Tinytim is a minister of the gospel and a dear brother in Christ. Perhaps before you accuse him of being a tool of satan, you should get a clue as to what you are talking about...both on this subject, and on him. You know very little about the latter, and I'm suspecting there are gaps in the former.

You will find that it is possible to disagree on this board, and still have some good fellowship. But slinging insults like day-old fertilizer isn't going to make that happen. If you want a discussion, great...otherwise, you won't last a week here. You'll either quit because us heathen revolt you, or the mods will tire of editing your personal attacks.

Hope you choose to stay. There's some fun folks in here. Then there's me, but that's for another thread...

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I have been involved with preaching since 1996. From then until now I see see a change that has become more apparent in the way that we worship the Lord through music. Today we have worldly music with so called Christian lyrics. If I had to pick one, I would have to pick the Christian lyrics. I am 110% against Christian Contemporary Music. This movement started out small, but now has grown so that non-believers are now listening to it. Music that is Contemporary in style promotes the idea that you do not have to change when you get saved. However, my Bible says that we are to put off the old man. We are to change clothes, attitude, wants, etc. (spiritually speaking). When salvation takes place in the life of a person, that person should start to change their desires (including music). I am so sad to see Christians falling by the wayside because of the influence of Contemporary Christian music in their lives. I know someone right now (I will not give their name) that is far away from the Lord (smoking, cussing, dressing like the world, acting godless, etc.) and it all started with Christian Contemporary Music. It is a sad day when Christians say "I listen to CCM because I like it" instead of saying "I listen to this music because God likes it". The truth is that they cannot say this because God does not like it when Christians have one foot in the world and one foot in the church. This is the Lukewarm church that is talked about in the book of Revelation. I honestly believe that CCM makes God sick because of the points described above. I believe that CCM is sending people to Hell because it uses emotions to convict instead of using the Holy Ghost. I think that many people believe that they are saved because they made some false profession that was hyped up on emotionalism. Do not think that I am against emotions (i.e. Jesus wept. John 11:35). However, when a group uses emotionalism through getting people hyped up at a "concert" to convict: I have a problem.


What about you? What do you think? What are some experiences that you have had with music being used to worship God?

Maybe I'm guilty of "compartmentalizing", but I tend to seperate my music into categories of worship or entertainment and I have different standards for each one. I won't get into the "entertainment" category, because I can tell from your post that you wouldn't like it, but when it comes to worship, I do prefer hymns.

When we founded our church, about three years ago, one of the things we decided was "no CCM and no 'modern worship music'".

There are primarily two reasons for this, the first being that the lyrics are very shallow and often have questionable doctrine, and the second is that it is just not an appropriate kind of music to convey the nature and character of God.

Now, personally, I can't stand it because it's just lousy music. It's poorly written, poorly produced, and poorly executed.

But all of that having been said, I think you're being a little overly critical of individuals. It's OK to voice an objection to CCM, but we need to be very careful not to confuse somebody's musical preference with their faithfulness to Christ.

 

[rbell]

I reported the post rbell. What was posted shows no sign of love for a fellow believer, no grace and no class. That was sad to see.

Hopefully, he'll come around. I've seen many folks come in with a splash...then find out we could actually discuss and learn together. Maybe that will happen.

But what do I know? I'm only five. :laugh:

Amazingly, at five, I've been at my church for nine years, fathered one kid at -3, and another at 1, and got married at the ripe old age of -9.

doggone...what will I be like at 70?

 

[rbell]

And this brings up why it is so critical for those leading the congregation musically to evaluate what we're singing. There are some shallow or downright inaccurate songs (from all genres) out there. It pains me to see any leader--whether from a traditional or less-than-traditional background--to choose a song simply because "it sounds good," or "they like it."

Much more to worshipping God than that.

Clarifying note for me: I never want the next generation to lose the richness and depth of the great hymns of the faith. I also want all generations to realize that we are called to sing unto the Lord a "new song." There's room for both in God's church...the new, the old, the ancient, and the stuff in between.

One other note: I still believe that the preaching of the Word should be the centerpiece of corporate worship.

 

[corndogggy]

As I said before, show me where converting sinners comes into play with music. I want some Scripture to back this up. Evangelism in the Scriptures has nothing to do with music and music has nothing to do with Evangelism in the Scriptures.

You show me where it says drums are satanic, that music CAN'T come into play when attracting folks, that any Christian music has to be rather boring, or anything else that you are insinuating. You can't, because you're just making it up based on your personal preference, then get mad when somebody calls you out on it.

If what you say is true though, then why bother trying to sing something traditional such as Amazing Grace real pretty in church? Somebody could very well have an emotional experience based on listening to this then decide to get saved. You claim this is bad though. You would have to be against all Christian music, but you're not, you're only against the newfangled stuff, which is why it's nothing but your misguided opinion.

 

[rbell]

Well, before I was saved, I was listening to Sesame Street and Romper Room. I promise I don't listen to that music anymore.

OK, now I see where the problem is...