Duggars expecting child #19

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Can you show me where it says in this verse that we are not to have children? I don't see it at all.

I can show you one time when someone refused to procreate - and God struck him dead. Genesis 38:8-10

"And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. "

 

1 Timothy 5:14 " Therefore, I want younger widows to get married, bear children, keep house, and give the enemy no occasion for reproach;"

(Young widows are commanded to bear children)

Psalm 127:3-5 "Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one’s youth.
5Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate."

(What is a man who does not have a quiver full of children? Not blessed. Children are a reward yet we choose to not take the reward??)

Psalm 128 "Blessed is everyone who fears the LORD,
who walks in his ways!
2You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands;
you shall be blessed, and it shall be well with you.

3Your wife will be like a fruitful vine
within your house;
your children will be like olive shoots
around your table.
4Behold, thus shall the man be blessed
who fears the LORD."

(Once again, we are denying a blessing if we choose to not have children)

Where in Scripture are we ever told to deny a blessing??

 

No - one who did not provide for his children - the children there - would be bad. If one is not lazy, they can provide for their children. They may not be able to provide everthing the children want but it would be rare for a hard working man to not be able to provide food and shelter for his family.

No - because that is not choosing childlessness. It is choosing singleness. If one chose singleness yet still had children, that would be fornication which is a sin. No where in Scripture is a single man or woman expected to have children.

What do you mean? Onan was to provide children for his brother's wife. He did not. God killed him for that. He chose to disobey and it was the wrong decision.

 

Hmm - what part of "get married, bear children" means not to have children? Since it is God who opens and closes wombs, and children are a blessing, how can anyone come to the conclusion that it's good to choose to not have children. Can you show me ONE verse that says such?

Children are a blessing from God. Where are we told to deny a blessing?

 

Did Anna choose to not have children or was she barren? BIG difference.

 

Let's see - we don't know when Anna's husband died. We know they lived together 7 years before he died and she was now old. It didn't say if her husband died the year before or 50 years before. We also know that Anna most likely passed away before Paul was even saved so it's hard to follow his direction when you're dead.

Now let's look at what Paul did say: "Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband, 10and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. 11But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry 12and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith. 13Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not. 14So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, and give the adversary no occasion for slander."

Was Anna less than 60 years old when her husband died?

 

"Be fruitful and multiply" has never been revoked.

Who in Scripture opens and closes wombs?

Can you show me in Scripture where one person was commended for not having children in marriage?

Marriage=having children unless the Lord closes the womb. That is the norm of Scripture. The one man who chose to not have children on purpose was killed by God Himself. That speaks quite strongly.

Now my question would be to anyone who chooses to remain childless, why?? Why would one not have children when they are referred to as a blessing and a treasure in Scripture? They are not a curse - it is a curse to not have children. So why chose a curse?

 

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

The command was given to humans - not to the animals.

If God wills a person will die, no amount of CPR will stop it. It is God who chooses life or death.

LOL - Tell that to my friend who's now 7 months along after having her tubes tied AND her husband having a vasectomy. God opened THAT womb despite the husband's and wife's will.

Hmm - Jesus healing people isn't commendable?

Sterilization of animals is not the point. I already pointed out that fruitful and multiply doesn't apply to animals.

But Scripture is not silent.

Excuse me? God Himself directed in the law that if a woman's husband were to die, the husband's brother is to marry her and sleep with her to give her children. Have you read the OT recently?

I showed you in Genesis 38. God killed Onan. That's a harsh punishment.

 

The command was not given to animals but to birds and things in the water:

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


He never gave that command to the animals on earth. I promise that I never spayed any of my birds or fish (or even those icky aquatic frogs that I hated).

That is correct. But we see that withdrawal was punishable by death. I think that speaks volumes to the will behind the act.

"Be fruitful and multiply" was given to every human being. Not just some.

Here's the passage. It actually doesn't even say he needs to marry her:

Deuteronomy 25

5If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.

6And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.

7And if the man like not to take his brother's wife, then let his brother's wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband's brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband's brother.

8Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;

9Then shall his brother's wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother's house.

10And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed.

Am I saying that? NO. I'm saying that God demanded that a woman have children and he provided a way for her to have them. Onan decided to not have children with this woman and instead of doing what God had commanded in Deuteronomy, he instead chose childlessness. He disobeyed God by choosing to not have a child and God disagreed with that to such a point as to kill him. God doesn't kill people for what is not sin, does he?

And I've shown it to you already. You choose to ignore my proof so there's no reason to give it to you again.