Ccm

During my time of searching for a new church down here in middle Tennessee, I visited a church where the preacher actually preached that if you weren't using the red hymnal, you were using the wrong hymnal.

I'm no fan of ccm, but I'm not calling your baby ugly either.

 

What's funny is that the redback is printed by Pathway Press, the publishing arm of the Church of God (Cleveland, TN). My hometown.

 

Do you know an argument for it?

 

What I don't care about it is when the choir director decides to force it upon an older congregation that isn't into that model of worship. We have a tiny older congregation, and here lately it is seriously be shoved into us, and more folks are moving on. I think the music is fine in the right setting, with a group that likes it~~pushing a square peg in a round hole just doesn't work, and I can see the frustration on some folks' faces every Sunday morning, that is when they're there now.

 

Most people say, "I know what I like," when what they mean is, "I like what I know."

 

Be sure not to sing "Nothing But the Blood" again. It's too repetitive.

What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain: Oh! precious is the flow That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know, Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

For my pardon, this I see, Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing, this my plea, Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Nothing can for sin atone, Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done, Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

his is all my hope and peace, Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness, Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Refrain

Now, I think it's a great hymn, but you better stop singing it.

 

The argument that I have heard, is:

(These are "not" my arguments, and I have not researched their validity. No attacks on me, please.)

One, association. It's origin is with african god worship, iirc.
Two, it's effect. It causes depression (Worldly sorrow worked death.). It causes anger (Outbursts of wrath... shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven.). It is sensual, entices a person to sexual sin. (Flee youthful lusts.)
Three, (which I "do" agree with) it's proponents are usually wicked, singing about oh how they love god and he saves them from their sins, while living unrepentant lives! Not all, of course. However, it is a bad testimony for the rest of us. But I would not say that this makes CCM as a genre wrong, rather: an irritation and likely effect.
Four, that it is emotional - and we don't need emotional music to bring people to false repentance.

I am far from convinced about this (That listening to CCM is wrong), but that seems to be the argument in IFB circles.
I would say this.. I would be careful about whom I let know that I listen to CCM - because of it's association with wicked artists.

 

I don't know how you sing it, but when we sing it, each line is different.

 

If you're so informed, maybe you could answer my question.

 

There are no objective reasons to oppose CCM on scriptural or moral grounds. Hence, it's a matter of liberty.

 

What I don't care about it is when the choir director decides to force it upon an older congregation that isn't into that model of worship. We have a tiny older congregation, and here lately it is seriously be shoved into us, and more folks are moving on. I think the music is fine in the right setting, with a group that likes it~~pushing a square peg in a round hole just doesn't work, and I can see the frustration on some folks' faces every Sunday morning, that is when they're there now.


And, you really think it's the music that's the problem?

 

Not attacking you...but the arguments you have been exposed to (and share with us here) are quite dubious. Once again...this isn't in any way an attack on you, but a refutation of these oft-repeated claims:

Not even close. This is a falsehood, and it's my opinion that racism usually fuels this particular lie. That one probably bothers me the most because of its out-and-out untruthfulness...and the insidious motivation behind it.

Completely subjective, complete overgeneralization. It "causes depression?" (followed by a mis-applied verse that has nothing to do with the issue at hand). I don't even know where to begin, there's so little validity. The same with anger. I've been in all kinds of services...traditional and not...in which the singer wasn't in a frame of mind to worship. Maybe they were mad at the other folks up there. Maybe they had just had a bad day. But the music was not the problem.

The one that will get the most scrutiny is the sensual argument. I would say the following: Music can remind us of many things. Maybe a southern gospel song would remind me of a honky-tonk I used to drink in. Maybe a song with a more urban feel would remind me of something else. Maybe a song with strong classical overtones would remind me of something completely different. But we must not confuse "memory associtations" with a mandate from God regarding styles. And one caveat regarding the genre of "Christian music," because it will come up: Not every song ever written is an appropriate song for corporate worship. Doesn't mean it's bad...but some songs are more horizontal than vertical.

OK, now that's just silly. I could point to ungodly singers in all genres...as well as godly ones. This would be akin to saying, "Preaching is wrong, because I know preachers that don't live what they preach." Usually wicked? So...we're saying a great majority of those singing Christian music are wicked, insincere hypocrites? Sorry, I just can't take it anywhere near that far. Of course there are fakes...as there are in all styles, and in all realms of ministry. But to discount an entire genre based on numbers that frankly, I don't think exist...I don't get that at all.

Emotional manipulation is not a good thing in any worship service. But how is that a function of CCM? I've seen pastors in traditional services have the 57th verse of "Just as I Am" sung...so they could emotionally manipulate the congregation. Same difference, and the style has nothing to do with it.

But the pendulum can swing too far as well: If emotion drives worship, that's unhealthy. But...we are created by God with emotions. And to divorce them from worship is not healthy.

And I would applaud your thinking through these issues...as well as being careful with whom you associate. I would just ask you to continue to think through these issues...and if you find an argument that simply doesn't hold water, don't do as some do...and hold on to it anyway.

Please understand: I appreciate that many of these arguments were not yours, but rather were those you have heard. I dealt with them in that manner, and hope you are not offended by how I approached them. I in no way meant for you to feel personally attacked.

 

That's rock music period. It does have it's roots in African Voodoo. It came into America through the slave trade. Many of the terms used to describe the aesthetics of rock music are borrowed from African languages.

The Africans who fused Christianity with their paganism believed they were maintaining their connections to their old world and it's gods, and that idea is alive and well today.

These are justifiable indictments against rock music, but it isn't only rock music that is consistent with these emotions.

Those with questionable lifestyles do seem to be involved in CCM in a disproportionate concentration.

This also goes for singing sappy, sentimental tunes like "Just as I Am" during Invitations.

 

I would hate to have to endure my salvation the way you seem to Aaron.. I am glad, God allows me to enjoy it!...

God gave us emotions..

NOTHING wrong with emotional music.

 

Tim, have you heard the new Casting Crowns cd? :thumbsup:

 

God gave us colons too, but I doubt you'd agree their issues are something to wallow in.

 

yea we are emotional creatures. I have no idea how to function without them. We can go to far one way like the Primitive Baptists and try to remove all emotion from anything or we can swing to the other direction and our sole purpose becomes to get an emotional high. The latter is very common the former is not so much.

Even in music while emotions are part of it they should never be the sole reason and always tempered by truth.

 

I bet Aaron is a fan of "data" from "Star Trek: The Next Generation."

He didn't use his "emotion chip" for his brain.

 

YEP! PRAISE GOD!... My wife bought it for me for my birthday! I was soooo happy! OOOPS.. theres an emotion!

:godisgood:

 

After looking at the arguments presnted in this thread, I reiterate that arguments against CCM as a genre are not objective.

As a matter of subjectivity, it's a matter of religious liberty. A church is neither required to, nor barred from, incorporating CCM. It can do so or not do so as it sees fit, just as it does with any other genre of music.