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Abortion: Is terminating an ectopic pregnancy scripturally permissible?

Discussion in 'Polls Forum' started by Johnv, Nov 30, 2009.

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Is terminating an ectopic pregnancy scripturally permissible?

  1. Yes - It is self defense. Scripture permits killing of the fetus so that the mother may live.

    13 vote(s)
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  2. No - The mother must allow herself and fetus to die.

    0 vote(s)
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  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    If a women discovers she is pregnant with an ectopic pregnancy, is it scripturally permissible to terminate that pregnancy, and not compromise one's position that abortion is murder?
     
    #1 Johnv, Nov 30, 2009
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    The pregnancy will terminate itself because the baby cannot live very long in the tube until the tube bursts. The baby has no chance of survival. The mother will die if the pregnancy is not terminated. The baby will die regardless. So, yes. It is permissible. It would actually be murder to let the mother die.
     
    #2 Amy.G, Nov 30, 2009
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    In an ectopic pregnancy, when the embryo is implanted in the fallopian tube, there is a zero chance that the baby will survive and it will most likely take the mother with it when it dies. So IMO it is absolutely permissible to terminate what will end up being a fatal condition otherwise.
     
    #3 annsni, Nov 30, 2009
  4. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    You poll questooion is moot.

    Even though it is called a "pregnancy", it is not a normal pregnancy at all.

    You are going to great lengths to try to be seen as "right" , when in fact, you have no example of a real pregnancy that it would not be "elective" to terminate it.

    If you do , let's have it.
     
    #4 carpro, Nov 30, 2009
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Even though it's not a normal pregnancy, it's still a pregnancy. Pregnancy is defined as a fertilized egg having implanted. "Ectopic" means "displaced". In other words, an ectopic pregnancy is one that occurs where it's not supposed to occur. But you're right. It's by definition not a normal pregnancy.

    I don't wish the horrow of an ectopic pregnancy on anyone. It's certainly permissble scripturally to terminate an ectopic pregnancy, but I don't wish the difficulty of having to make that choice on any expectant mother.
    It was Bro Curtis' idea for the poll.
    I do. My cousin was sufferring severe blood loss at when four months pregnant. She had to be rushed to the hospital. It was necessary to terminate her pregnancy and thereafter treat the blood loss. She lost so much blood, she and her unborn fetus would have both died. I don't recall the medical condition she had (had something to do with a chemical or hormonal imbalance that was resulting in uterine instability), but it was a rare case where terminating the pregnancy was necessary. SHe and her husband went on to have two healthy children after that, but they still mourn the loss of their first.

    But to be specific, elective abortion is murder. The aforementioned example wasn't elective.
     
    #5 Johnv, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2009
  6. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I believe you are arguing simply for the sake of argument.

    Do you have an example of a normal pregnancy that it would not be "elective" to terminate it?
     
    #6 carpro, Nov 30, 2009
  7. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    (duplicate post)
     
    #7 Johnv, Nov 30, 2009
  8. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Bro Curtis is the one saying that ending an ectopic pregnancy is wrong, not me.
    See above.
     
    #8 Johnv, Nov 30, 2009
  9. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    While I don't question the decision for your cousin to terminate her pregnancy, she could have refused.

    Technically, that makes it elective.

    Just like, technically, an ectopic pregnancy is still a pregnancy.

    See the problem?:thumbs:
     
    #9 carpro, Nov 30, 2009
  10. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    True, that would have been her decision to do so, but she likely would have died.
    If a person's life is at serious risk, it's not elective. An elective abortion one that is not medically required. I can't fathom why anyone would think that terminating such a pregnancy is ever okay.
    It's not a problem. If the mother's life is in danger, terminating a pregnancy is permissible. If it's not, it's murder.
     
    #10 Johnv, Nov 30, 2009
  11. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    ANY early termination of a pregnancy is an "abortion" and is elective unless God does it (and it's STILL termed "abortion" medically). However, there are times that it is medically necessary and unavoidable. If a child is going to die and there is no risk to the mother, then absolutely it is best to allow that pregnancy to continue well monitored to it's natural end. However, if both the lives of the mother and child are doomed (as in the case of a tubal ectopic pregnancy), then it is vital to save who you can. It is absolutely heroic and admirable for the mother to risk her life to give her child a chance at life but when that child has no chance of life at all, it is no longer heroic but dumb IMO.
     
    #11 annsni, Nov 30, 2009
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I question the motives of everyone who uses the word "fetus" in reference to an unborn child. It is a term that is great for soothing the guilty conscience.
     
    #12 Revmitchell, Nov 30, 2009
  13. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Your opinion only.

    By definition, if a person has a choice, it is elective.

    You chose the word "elective" to outline your stance and now you are stuck with it, but too stubborn to see the fallacy in your argument.

    And that's all it is, argument.

    Your intellectiual dishonesty has put an end to this ...

    argument... that you started, but can't finish.
     
    #13 carpro, Nov 30, 2009
  14. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Most ectopics are in the fallopian tube and will result in severe bleeding, significant risk of infertility and death for the mother if not terminated early.


    An ectopic pregnancy is simply one that is outside of the uterus so there are very rare cases where successful ectopic pregnancies in the abdomen have been able to go to term and be delivered via C-section. This is in the freak of nature category and the risk of death is still very high to the mother. So if I were to see an ectopic in the abdomen, I would not hesitate to end the pregnancy.

    And then if you keep going a little further along the freaks of nature scale you have stone babies or lithopedion where the mother's body mounts an immune response and calcifies an abdominal ectopic pregnancy. Sometimes this calcified baby can stay in the body of the woman for decades before she discovers it. Before X-rays were around, the woman may have died without knowing about it.

    There you go, more than you ever wanted to know about the weird and wacky side of ectopics.
     
    #14 Gold Dragon, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2009
  15. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    The Bible has only one verse that remotely speaks about abortion and it comes down on the side of the mother.
     
    #15 Crabtownboy, Nov 30, 2009
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    That's not the definition of an elective medical procedure. An elective medical procedure is one that is beneficial to the patient but not essential for survival.
    Since your rebuttal here is based on a faulty understanding of the definition of an elective medical prodedure, your own rebuttal falls flat.
    I've been consistent from point one: Elective abortion is murder. Abortion to save the life of the mother is permissible (such as an ectopic pregnancy). This position is scripturally consistent, and not intellectually dishonest at all. I fail to see why this is even an argument in the church.
     
    #16 Johnv, Dec 1, 2009
  17. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Maybe I question the motive of anyone who uses the term newborn, infant, baby, toddler, tween, and teenager instead of child or human. :tongue3:

    You are what you are. Being in a certain phase of your life and being labeled with a name for that phase doesn't mean someone has an ulterior motive. You're simply being classified. You were once a fetus, just as you were once a baby and a teenager and are now a....

    well I don't know because I don't know your age.
     
    #17 Gina B, Dec 1, 2009
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    All of the terms you used indicates a person, a human, someone who deserves respect as a life and a human being. The term "fetus" lets people off the hook for the responsibility to that human life.
     
    #18 Revmitchell, Dec 1, 2009
  19. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    To make a judgment upon a person who uses words such as "fetus" or "embryo" is unrighteous jugdement, and sdcripturally forbidden. The terms "fetus" and "embryo" are medical terms, and there's nothing morally wrong with a Christian using them in that context. The question is whether a person believes that fetus or embryo are a person. To accuse someone who uses the words "embryo" or "fetus" of not being pro-life says more about the unrigteous heart of the accuser than it does of the accused.
     
    #19 Johnv, Dec 1, 2009
  20. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    #20 carpro, Dec 1, 2009
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