why people hate the IRS

[Bob Alkire]

What we need is to replace the income tax with a sales tax. That would not discourage a person from making money, but would discourage people from making unwise buying decisions. Plus, it would preserve the deductions we all enjoy (no sales tax on interest, etc).

How much? You know it would keep going up and up as income tax did. When in Europe a lot of places had a sales tax or value added tax. Try buying a car, a stove and so on, it wasn't good in some places.

At one time all interest was a tax deduction. Our economy was built on time payment from the end of WW II till now for the most part. They still sell cars on time even with the loss of the deduction. They used the deduction to keep us spending money we didn't have. I say do away with all deductions and have a flat tax and no other federal taxes.

 

[targus]

The very idea of posting support for an out of control governmental agency with no moral fiber over an American citizen is an outrage.

So you would have sided with Al Capone over the IRS?

 

[Johnv]

How much? You know it would keep going up and up as income tax did.

If a tax increase is going to occur, it's going to occur whether the mode of collecting is via an income tax or sales tax. The issue of raisine taxes is different than what constitutes an effective way to collect taxes.

I say do away with all deductions and have a flat tax and no other federal taxes.

I guarantee that will ruin the housing market. The elimination of the home interest deduction will do nothing good for the economy.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I guarantee that will ruin the housing market. The elimination of the home interest deduction will do nothing good for the economy.

That is what was said when auto loan deductions were done away with. Well folks are still buying cars they can't afford.

 

[Johnv]

That is what was said when auto loan deductions were done away with. Well folks are still buying cars they can't afford.

There's a difference between no longer being able to deduct $300 a month over 4 years, and no longer being able to deduct $2000 a month over 30+ years. I know for me, whose mortgage is $3000 a month, the loss of the deduction would require me to pay an additional income tax of $5400 per year. That's enough to require me to sell my house, which, in this market, would leave me with insufficient equity to buy a new house. I'd be forced to into a renting situation. Now, multiply that by several hundred thousand, and you've got yourself an uber-recession.

 

[saturneptune]

So you would have sided with Al Capone over the IRS?

Listen to yourself ask that question. Do you see what that says? Your expectations for this country is so low Gumby could not play limbo. How else could we phrase that? Would you rather have a F+ or an F on a report card? Are you going to vote for the Republican or Democrat?

We are a better nation than that. This nation was built on high ideals, on the concept that we the people can push horizons further than anyone could ever imagine.

IRS or Al Capone? How about a Consititutional government that serves the people instead of Al Capone.

 

[Bob Alkire]

There's a difference between no longer being able to deduct $300 a month over 4 years, and no longer being able to deduct $2000 a month over 30+ years. I know for me, whose mortgage is $3000 a month, the loss of the deduction would require me to pay an additional income tax of $5400 per year. That's enough to require me to sell my house, which, in this market, would leave me with insufficient equity to buy a new house. I'd be forced to into a renting situation. Now, multiply that by several hundred thousand, and you've got yourself an uber-recession.

I'm sure you are looking at this through your eyes and I'm looking through my eyes. I believe most can buy cheaper than rent here in Florida, but I haven't rented in 40+ years or more.

 

[targus]

Listen to yourself ask that question. Do you see what that says? Your expectations for this country is so low Gumby could not play limbo. How else could we phrase that? Would you rather have a F+ or an F on a report card? Are you going to vote for the Republican or Democrat?

We are a better nation than that. This nation was built on high ideals, on the concept that we the people can push horizons further than anyone could ever imagine.

IRS or Al Capone? How about a Consititutional government that serves the people instead of Al Capone.

I am merely responding to your statements.

It was you that stated that it is an outrage that someone would side with the IRS instead of an American citizen.

I am simply demonstrating that you are speaking in hyperbole.

Each situation is different and should be judged based on the individual merits.

Perhaps I could take you more seriously if you spoke like less of a zealot and more like a rational person with discretion.

 

[Bob Alkire]

IRS or Al Capone? How about a Consititutional government that serves the people instead of Al Capone.

That is the problem, I don't see a lot of difference in the IRS and Capone with the democrats and the republicans. Each is on the take, if they keep taking we will be like USSR was when I was over there in the 60's equally shared poverty.

 

[Johnv]

I'm sure you are looking at this through your eyes and I'm looking through my eyes. I believe most can buy cheaper than rent here in Florida, but I haven't rented in 40+ years or more.

That would put you at the age of 45, I'm sure It all depends on where you are in Florida, of course. Here in SoCal, $600K is about average for a house, and $1500 a month is about average for rent.

 

[saturneptune]

That is the problem, I don't see a lot of difference in the IRS and Capone with the democrats and the republicans. Each is on the take, if they keep taking we will be like USSR was when I was over there in the 60's equally shared poverty.

You are right on target. Yet, here in this thread for example, we have two posters defending the status quo, and we wonder why the United States is like it is today. It seems people are more interested in emphasizing the false differences between the two parties instead of putting the two parties in one camp and the Constitution in the other.

If one stands up for moral integrity in government, a government that serves the people, defends the US Constitution, one gets called names like "zealot." Well, I will take that name any day over milktoast or lemming.

 

[targus]

You are right on target. Yet, here in this thread for example, we have two posters defending the status quo, and we wonder why the United States is like it is today.

The status quo?

You mean the IRS and the requirement that we file accurate income tax returns and pay the proper amount of taxes?

It seems people are more interested in emphasizing the false differences between the two parties instead of putting the two parties in one camp and the Constitution in the other.

I'm not sure how you got from the OP to "false differences between the two parties".

If one stands up for moral integrity in government, a government that serves the people, defends the US Constitution, one gets called names like "zealot." Well, I will take that name any day over milktoast or lemming.

Perhaps you could tell me how you are even in the correct hemisphere where it comes to being on topic.

Do you even know what the topic of the OP is?

 

[saturneptune]

Do you even know what the topic of the OP is?

Yes, I am right on topic. The topic is the reason people hate the IRS. The present state of our government is the source of the IRS's power.

Now, lets look at your posts. You are defending the IRS, moral degenerates that they are. The topic is why people hate the agency, not a series of apologetic posts defending the agency, so it seems to me you are off topic.

However, in your defense, since you see no problem with the IRS or the government, you could not begin to understand the source of the problem.

 

[Bob Alkire]

The status quo?

You mean the IRS and the requirement that we file accurate income tax returns and pay the proper amount of taxes?

I have had to go to a number of audits over the years. I never enjoyed them or the IRS rep. I lost work and that cost me money. I never was found to be off. So even though I was found to be correct, it did cause trouble. I ask for Monday each time, each time I got a Friday and after a little bit of time( half an hour or so) was told to come back on Monday.

I don't know of anyone who has had dealings with an IRS audit, that enjoyed their attitude. There might be some, but I have not found them.

 

[rbell]

are there some honorable, hard-working IRS agents? Of course there are. But the bad apples abound, and they don't usually face any consequences for their abuse of taxpayers.

Some folks hate the IRS because they cheat and got caught...others are innocent, yet still pay thousands of dollars in fines, fees, or costs because of the atrocious lack of rights that taxpayers have when facing the IRS.

 

[Johnv]

Yes, I am right on topic. The topic is the reason people hate the IRS.

And the answer is that the reason people most often hate the IRS because it reminds people of their responsibilities. It's in human nature to complain. It's further in human nature to presume guilt of another than oneself. Complaining about the IRS is incredibly easy. Complaining about the IRS objectively is not.

 

[saturneptune]

The problem with your analysis is that for a entity of any type to "remind them of their responsibilities" requires that entity have enough honesty, trust and moral bearing to use as a standard. In this case, there is no standard.

 

[Johnv]

The problem with your analysis is that for a entity of any type to "remind them of their responsibilities" requires that entity have enough honesty, trust and moral bearing to use as a standard. In this case, there is no standard.

The "it" I was referring to wasn't referring to anythign the IRS does IRS per se, but simply to the fact that it exists, and we have to pay taxes to the agency. Similarly, people don't like paying child support. I don't know a single person who "likes" to pay child support, but "most" pay it faithfully. We don't like paying these things. It has little to do with whom we are paying to, and more to do with the chore of paying.

 

[targus]

Yes, I am right on topic. The topic is the reason people hate the IRS. The present state of our government is the source of the IRS's power.

Now, lets look at your posts. You are defending the IRS, moral degenerates that they are. The topic is why people hate the agency, not a series of apologetic posts defending the agency, so it seems to me you are off topic.

However, in your defense, since you see no problem with the IRS or the government, you could not begin to understand the source of the problem.

And your statments above are exactly what I mean when I say "zealot" rather than "rational".

IRS - moral degenerates. Please provide an example from the OP.

Me defending the IRS. Please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

I see no problem with the IRS. Again please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

 

[saturneptune]

Me defending the IRS. Please provide an example from my posts to this thread.

I see no problem with the IRS.

Above are two statements from your last post. The first one asked for an example. The second one is your answer in your own words.