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The Truth vs. The Lie

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
The Bible also only talks about one part of the world. It says nothing about what is happening in those other parts, including North, South, and Central Americas. We know for fact that people, humans inhabited North America long before Europeans discovered these shores. We have historical fact that certain animals of a specific age and condition inhabited Canada and some States. There is a "farm" totally dedicated to the bones and structures of such pre-historic animals.

They also fit into what man thinks helped to develop the land mass and shapes of the land and waterways. The Canadian Shield is one such land structure that was formed by massive freezing, then flooding and resultive erosions.

I can account for these through the evolutionary process (Not Darwin) as a Theistic evolutionist, and I don't deny any portion of scripture. If I never mentioned evolution, I might be mistakenly labelled a fundamentalist!!!!!

Cheers,

Jim
 

Amy.G

New Member
The Bible also only talks about one part of the world. It says nothing about what is happening in those other parts, including North, South, and Central Americas.
Cheers,

Jim

Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life, from under heaven; [and] every thing that [is] in the earth shall die.


ALL that has the breath of life was destroyed save the 8 in the ark and the animals with them.

If the flood was confined to one area, then all flesh would not have died.
 

Amy.G

New Member
all flesh known in that part of the flood area did die. It was a localized flood.

Cheers,

Jim

It doesn't say that.

From Answers in Genesis Website:

Many Christians today think the Flood of Noah’s time was only a local flood, confined to somewhere around Mesopotamia. This idea comes not from Scripture, but from the notion of ‘billions of years’ of Earth history.

But look at the problems this concept involves:

If the Flood was local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and missed it.

If the Flood was local, why did God send the animals to the Ark so they would escape death? There would have been other animals to reproduce that kind if these particular ones had died.

If the Flood was local, why was the Ark big enough to hold all kinds of land vertebrate animals that have ever existed? If only Mesopotamian animals were aboard, the Ark could have been much smaller.

If the Flood was local, why would birds have been sent on board? These could simply have winged across to a nearby mountain range.

If the Flood was local, how could the waters rise to 15 cubits (8 meters) above the mountains (Genesis 7:20)? Water seeks its own level. It couldn’t rise to cover the local mountains while leaving the rest of the world untouched.

If the Flood was local, people who did not happen to be living in the vicinity would not be affected by it. They would have escaped God’s judgment on sin. If this happened, what did Christ mean when He likened the coming judgment of all men to the judgment of ‘all’ men (Matthew 24:37–39) in the days of Noah? A partial judgment in Noah’s day means a partial judgment to come.

If the Flood was local, God would have repeatedly broken His promise never to send such a flood again.

Perhaps you could answer these questions?
 

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
Those who believe in a local flood do have answers for those tentative questions that presuppose certain conditions. Some countries do experience horrible flooding. A flat earth may present a flooding problem. A globe has much less risk.

It is like the crossing of the Red Sea or properly the Reed Sea.One is crossable the other is not.

Cheers,

Jim
 

Amy.G

New Member
Those who believe in a local flood do have answers for those tentative questions

Jim
So what are your answers? Why did God put birds on the ark? (for starters)

Why did God tell Noah to build an ark? God told Noah 120 years before the flood what was going to happen. Couldn't he have traveled to a safe place in that length of time?
 

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
Noah was only aware of the land around him. Where are all the birds listed, and where are the so-called pre-historic animals? I am not going to get involved because it is the same as the calvinism vs arminian debate,endless.

Cheers,

Jim
 

Amy.G

New Member
Noah was only aware of the land around him. Where are all the birds listed, and where are the so-called pre-historic animals? I am not going to get involved because it is the same as the calvinism vs arminian debate,endless.

Cheers,

Jim
Well, then just tell me why God told Noah to build an ark. Why would he need an ark, which was gigantic by the way, if he had 120 years to travel to dry land and avoid the judgment of God?
 

sag38

Active Member
Give up Amy, some don't want to take God's word at face value. Don't cast your pearls... To most folks the word "all" means all and not some localized area.
 

th1bill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not too long ago, the gap theory on Gen 1 and 2 was as fundamental as the Bible, and to-day it is liberal.

Not everything evolutionary follows Darwin. He is ancient! The time schedule was established by Bishop Uusher and does not always follow the time schedule in the Bible, which often skips generations, even in the genealogies.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim
... I know that I'm not always the fastest on the pick up but what was your point?
 

th1bill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
all flesh known in that part of the flood area did die. It was a localized flood.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim,
... You err! God has specifically stated certain facts about the flood and your thoughts make God into either a liar or an idiot! Your premise will only wrk if men wrote the scripture to the point of being the authors of each of the books. That premise explodes for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that there are about 40 men that put pen to paper to record the scriptures, many of them having never read the others works but yet the theme remained the same over that 4,000 year period.
 

th1bill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Those who believe in a local flood do have answers for those tentative questions that presuppose certain conditions. Some countries do experience horrible flooding. A flat earth may present a flooding problem. A globe has much less risk.

It is like the crossing of the Red Sea or properly the Reed Sea.One is crossable the other is not.

Cheers,

Jim

You're saying that God is not omnipotent?
 

th1bill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Noah was only aware of the land around him. Where are all the birds listed, and where are the so-called pre-historic animals? I am not going to get involved because it is the same as the calvinism vs arminian debate,endless.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim,
You have not entered into a cross denominational discussion but are presenting an unbelievers statement(s) as biblical truth.
 

windcatcher

New Member
Noah was only aware of the land around him. Where are all the birds listed, and where are the so-called pre-historic animals? I am not going to get involved because it is the same as the calvinism vs arminian debate,endless.

Cheers,

Jim

So what are you trying to prove?

Noah came long after Adam and Eve. Moses came long after Noah and after Abraham: Yet he is credited with the writing of the first five books of the Bible which tell the story of the aforementioned as well as of his own demise. Whether actually penned by Moses or accumulated writings or recounted history inspired of God and compiled by Moses.... except (with a qualifying 'perhaps' at this point) for the epitath of his demise and intro into the historical accounts of the nation Israel. The first five books, Genesis in particular, was concerned with the beginnings and regards the whole earth before God chose a people through which He would work and reveal himself as he developed them into a nation. Either the Bible is inspired Word and God's Word is true.... or we have nothing to base faith upon. If the Bible is inspired.... then would God tell us a lie? If the OT weren't true, wouldn't Jesus have told us or have made corrections? In Psalms God gave us the promise of preserving his Word. Isn't He capable of doing this though there are many translations? If the Bible says the whole world suffered under the flood and only 8 were preserved.... why is this so difficult to understand? The tower of Babel followed the flood..... and the confusion of languages. As the continents look like they could have all been compressed together at one time.... how do we know when and at what point they were separated? Clearly the universal flood was a monstrous event and I have little doubt but what with only eight people to report their amazing salvation and many generations which followed.... just what occurred during those years following Noah to Abraham are a mystery concerning the developments on and in the earth.

While the so called 'proofs' of evolution by scientific (with an agenda) hoaxes were being created and authenticated under their own careful controls and supervision...... before the disproof became evident.... Lucy, piltdownman, etc.... the Christian community was confused and with the propaganda of science supposed to be always 'pure' and 'objective' being already taught at university and the Biblical report receiving a biased 'scholary' challenge.... the gap theory was proposed and started to be generally accepted as a bridge of compromise for science and theology to agree.... BUT, there were some who remained steadfast that what the Bible taught was the truth... and there were some who were driven to become scholars in their own right, fully capable of examining and challenging the evidence of both sides... who were able to defrock the fakery of prior claims by evolutionists.... but too late to prevent the fame and spread of misinformation accepted by academia which continues to perpetuate the fraud by repeating lies in the text books. Had the evolutionary scientist exposed their own failures ........they would have created in lessor learned people a healthy skepticism for their word and encouraged the expansion of faith of those who believe in God to those who were borderline seekers. This they would not do and could not do cause it goes against their god.... which is of this world..... which wants to make the creature and the creation gods unto themselves and humanism is its religion. The Gap theory is a created compromise, developed and accepted by many in christendom to explain what was being 'authenticated' and published, but which was built upon false evidence, which at the time was unprepared to challenged and appeared so true that it shook the foundations of the word on which faith in Jehovah God and Jesus, his son, is established.

If the church had more established faith in God's Word, and had given patience until it had the opportunity to examine and proof the evidence for itself through the scholarship of educated and knowledgeble laity..... it might not have lent any credence to the evolutionary theory by proposing its own theory, though it might have suffered a temporary setback to the challenge of faith. On the other hand, it is possible that this Gap theory provided a cover to those who would enter the scientific studies with questions and gain experience, knowledge, and sufficient credibility..... whether recognized by scientific peer groups or not.... sufficient knowledge to shoot open holes which were sealed in the sieve built by the evolutionist theory.

This presents a lesson which we would all be wise to learn very well as the darkness deepens upon our planet and the delusions and deceptions build, that all is not as it appears to be: Deception is in the presenting and the withholding of news, information, events, the promises of people, and the meaning of words twisted from their true meaning to present an illusion: We may have freedom of speech.... but the media is free...... free to those who control it and the ads which pay for it..... free to express and limit what is published according to those who own it. There is no balanced reporting. An attempt to present divisions of difference between two or more points of view.... a seductive difference is shown to one side.... and a purposeful placement of either an inept spokeperson or avoidance of issues, or a limit to the depth of recount occurs which may cause some to think they received balanced information and not realize that they were pawns in the grand scheme of keeping their reliance and centering on what they are being told to accept, rather than freely judgeing and maintaining a healthy skepticism for themselves.

There has been a conspiracy going on since the beginning of time.... a warfare which began in the heavenlies, when the archangel Lucifer revolted against the authority of God... and 1/3 of the host were exiled from heaven..... and are now doing all they can through every form of darkness to enter in and control the direction of those in leadership within this damned world system to organize and unify and bring every person under their authority against God. The devil wants to control and be worshipped and shake us at every weak point of our faith..... if that is possible. But, Praise Be to God, we have a Blessed Savior, a Blessed Promise, a Blessed Hope and Assurance.... that though all as we know it is taken away.... and either we are preserved out of the trials which will come ahead..... or among those who will be preserved through those trials..... God will not fail either in His character, nor his Word and He will and does preserve us. In Him we have the victory! There is no other ending!
 
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Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Noah was only aware of the land around him. Where are all the birds listed, and where are the so-called pre-historic animals? I am not going to get involved because it is the same as the calvinism vs arminian debate,endless.

Cheers,

Jim
So the promise not to destroy the world anymore with a flood is valid only for that region?

Can't be. I see His bow in the sky here, so this area must have been under the same condemnation and judgement as that one.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
It means that absolutely. Darwinist's have usurped and now own the term, evolution. To say that evolution, however small, occurs within a species is to yield legitimacy to their other claims, whether you acknowlege that fact or not.
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Supply proof that that phrase has been copy written by darwinists....that statement was so ignorant I shouldn't have even responded...
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Just say "evolution" in a crowd, and what will people think of? It's just like the word "gay."
 

th1bill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Just say "evolution" in a crowd, and what will people think of? It's just like the word "gay."

Aaron,
... You speak from the point of common sense and Biblical truth [personal attack/questioning salvation snipped].

If you feel led to then engage him but the field is full of large stones.
 
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