The SDA prophet denies the diety of Christ

[targus]

"The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty." -Ellen G. White (1903, ms 150, SDA Commentary V, p. 1129)

What more do I need to say?

 

[annsni]

Wow - that says enough.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

So now, move up real close to your moniters as we hear Ann and Targus explain to us the inner workings of the Incarnation.

If you read ANYONE on the Trinity you will be able to pick out a specific sentence or thought that is contradictory in some limited sense. The more that is written the more questions that can be asked. The quote mentioned can in no way be a clear indication of how she felt in the overall scheme of things.

I most likely would disagree with her on many issues, but to take a quote out of all context and use it in the manner it appears to be used here is not a fair way to conclude anything.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

The argument that Christ was fully God and fully man at the same time in the same sense does absolutely nothing to clear up the Trinity or Incarnation in my mind. Something cannot be and not be at the same time in the same sense. I would conclude that Christ and God were indeed one in ‘some sense and in some manner’ yet in another sense, God is not a man and cannot be tempted as men, yet Christ was a man and was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin.

I fully admit that at the end of the day, my conclusions are, as well, ‘less than insightful’ as are all conclusions and explanations, including those of ‘orthodox’ Trinitarian doctrine. They all fall short of discovering the mystery that exists in the relationship of God and Christ in the Incarnation to one degree or another.

 

[targus]

So now, move up real close to your moniters as we hear Ann and Targus explain to us the inner workings of the Incarnation.

If you read ANYONE on the Trinity you will be able to pick out a specific sentence or thought that is contradictory in some limited sense. The more that is written the more questions that can be asked. The quote mentioned can in no way be a clear indication of how she felt in the overall scheme of things.

I most likely would disagree with her on many issues, but to take a quote out of all context and use it in the manner it appears to be used here is not a fair way to conclude anything.

I am hoping that Bobryan who is SDA will be able to explain it to us.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Let me take this one step further. I believe this thread should be closed on the basis of the quote in the OP, due to the fact that one quote with no context in sight, with the conclusion posted in the title of the OP by Targus, amounts to nothing short of slander or gossip designed to foment distrust in others that happen to be SDA, again without a solid basis for such wild accusations.

 

[Trotter]

I found a fuller quote of this:
"But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one." SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129

Yes, or no? Either Jesus Christ was God, or He was not. Fully God and fully man. not half and half, not one but not the other. If Jesus was not God then we are all hopelessly lost and condemned to hell. If He was fully God, then the word of God is not a lie.

Sorry folks. EGW was a false prophet, and yet the SDA have no problem with her or her false teachings? Something is very wrong with that.

 

[targus]

...without a solid basis for such wild accusations.

What accusations?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

The allegation that she denied the Diety of Christ.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

(said to be a quote by EW)"yet He did not cease to be God when He became man"

HP: That clearly establishes the Diety of Christ. I fing that some trinitarians so trying to elevate His Diety that they detract from His humanity. I personally find her statements ( as I read them here) simply trying to cover both bases fairly.

 

[targus]

HP: That clearly establishes the Diety of Christ. I fing that some trinitarians so trying to elevate His Diety that they detract from His humanity. I personally find her statements ( as I read them here) simply trying to cover both bases fairly.

Cover both bases?

But she is a "PROPHET" to the SDA.

As a PROPHET shouldn't she be givng the single truth and not a menu of choices?

To the SDA Ellen White's writing carry the authority of Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

I found a fuller quote of this:
"But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one." SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129

Indeed - "He did not cease to be God"

4 (chs. 10:18; 17:3). Christ's Life Was Unborrowed.-- The Word, who was with God, and who was God, had this life. Physical life is something which each individual received. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Lifegiver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. "I lay it down of myself," He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ. He cannot earn it; it is given him as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as his personal Saviour. "This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3. This is the open fountain of life for the world (ST Feb. 13, 1912). {5BC 1130.3}

(Matt. 27:54; 1 Tim. 3:16.) But although Christ's divine glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man. The human did not take the place of the divine, nor the divine of the human. This is the mystery of godliness. The two expressions "human" and "divine" were, in Christ, closely and inseparably one, and yet they had a distinct individuality. Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own.
{5BC 1129.3}

When Christ's indwelling glory flashed forth, it was too intense for His pure and perfect humanity entirely to conceal. The scribes and Pharisees did not speak in acknowledgment of Him, but their enmity and hatred were baffled as His majesty shone forth. The truth, obscured as it was by a veil of humiliation, spoke to every heart with unmistakable evidence. This led to the words of Christ, "Ye know who I am." Men and devils were compelled, by the shining forth of His glory, to confess, "Truly, this is the Son of God." Thus God was revealed; thus Christ was glorified (ST May 10, 1899). {5BC 1129.5}

Christ left His position in the heavenly courts, and came to this earth to live the life of human beings. This sacrifice He made in order to show that Satan's charge against God is false--that it is possible for man to obey the laws of God's kingdom. Equal with the Father, honored and adored by the angels, in our behalf Christ humbled Himself, and came to this earth to live a life of lowliness and poverty--to be a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.

Having thus affirmed the Divinity of Christ as God - as "equal to the Father" Ellen White also affirmed God the Holy Spirit as the "Third person of the Godhead".

Many - many details that Targus feels compelled to ignore apparently.

Oh well.

He is free to bark up the wrong tree as long as he pleases.

But the reality is that

SDAs do have a lot of doctrinal differences with other denominations (as I have shown a great number of times on this board) - however the gaming method that Targus uses has never been a way to "get Adventists to believe" some wild idea.

Thus ALL Adventists (including Ellen White) have accepted that Enoch lived 300 years and prior to being taken to heaven - gave birth to Methuselah who then lived for almost 1000 years (dying the year of the flood).

In the same way - Ellen White affirms Christ as "Equal to the Father" and as "not ceasing to be God" when He came to earth.

Sadly Targus likes to "imagine another denomation" - and he is free to do that all he likes. His gaming does not change the actual history or beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

HP makes a comment about the incarnation of Christ -- addressing the fact that in the incarnation Christ has BOTH Human nature AND Divinity.

Targus responds with his standard "gaming" retort - pretending not to understand the concept of the incarnation and TWO natures in Christ.

Cover both bases?

But she is a "PROPHET" to the SDA.

As a PROPHET shouldn't she be givng the single truth and not a menu of choices?

To the SDA Ellen White's writing carry the authority of Scripture.

So it is all good "gaming" on Targus' part - but totally lacking in substance.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

Thus ALL Adventists (including Ellen White) have accepted that Enoch lived 300 years and prior to being taken to heaven - gave birth to Methuselah who then lived for almost 1000 years (dying the year of the flood).

Except she didn't say that did she?

You have to excuse it with the "typo" defense.

 

[BobRyan]

Thus ALL Adventists (including Ellen White) have accepted that Enoch lived 300 years and prior to being taken to heaven - gave birth to Methuselah who then lived for almost 1000 years (dying the year of the flood).

Except she didn't say that did she?

Is this where you pretend not to have read the responses given to this already?

If so I have to say that you are not helping your argument as much as you may have at first imagined.

here is the "long form" of info that Ellen White mentioned about Enoch --

(As compared to your once sentence snippet from a periodical that had a typo)

Enoch was a man of strong and highly cultivated mind and extensive knowledge; he was honored with special revelations from God; yet being in constant communion with Heaven, with a sense of the divine greatness and perfection ever before him, he was one of the humblest of men. The closer the connection with God, the deeper was the sense of his own weakness and imperfection. {PP 85.3}

Distressed by the increasing wickedness of the ungodly, and fearing that their infidelity might lessen his reverence for God, Enoch avoided constant association with them, and spent much time in solitude, giving himself to meditation and prayer. Thus he waited before the Lord, seeking a clearer knowledge of His will, that he might perform it. To him prayer was as the breath of the soul; he lived in the very atmosphere of heaven. {PP 85.4}

Through holy angels God revealed to Enoch His purpose to destroy the world by a flood, and He also opened more fully to him the plan of redemption. By the spirit of prophecy He carried him down through the generations that should live after the Flood, and showed him the great events connected with the second coming of Christ and the end of the world. {PP 85.5}

Enoch had been troubled in regard to the dead. It had seemed to him that the righteous and the wicked would go to the dust together, and that this would be their end. He could not see the life of the just beyond the grave. In prophetic vision he was instructed concerning the death of Christ, and was shown His coming in glory, attended by all the holy angels, to ransom His people from the grave. He also saw the corrupt state of the world
86
when Christ should appear the second time--that there would be a boastful, presumptuous, self-willed generation, denying the only God and the Lord Jesus Christ, trampling upon the law, and despising the atonement. He saw the righteous crowned with glory and honor, and the wicked banished from the presence of the Lord, and destroyed by fire. {PP 85.6}

Enoch became a preacher of righteousness, making known to the people what God had revealed to him. Those who feared the Lord sought out this holy man, to share his instruction and his prayers. He labored publicly also, bearing God's messages to all who would hear the words of warning. His labors were not restricted to the Sethites. In the land where Cain had sought to flee from the divine Presence, the prophet of God made known the wonderful scenes that had passed before his vision. "Behold," he declared, "the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds." Jude 14, 15. {PP 86.1}

He was a fearless reprover of sin. While he preached the love of God in Christ to the people of his time, and pleaded with them to forsake their evil ways, he rebuked the prevailing iniquity and warned the men of his generation that judgment would surely be visited upon the transgressor. It was the Spirit of Christ that spoke through Enoch; that Spirit is manifested, not alone in utterances of love, compassion, and entreaty; it is not smooth things only that are spoken by holy men. God puts into the heart and lips of His messengers truths to utter that are keen and cutting as a two-edged sword. {PP 86.2}

The power of God that wrought with His servant was felt by those who heard. Some gave heed to the warning, and renounced their sins; but the multitudes mocked at the solemn message, and went on more boldly in their evil ways. The servants of God are to bear a similar message to the world in the last days, and it will also be received with unbelief and mockery. The antediluvian world rejected the warning words of him who walked with God. So will the last generation make light of the warnings of the Lord's messengers. {PP 86.3}

In the midst of a life of active labor, Enoch steadfastly maintained his communion with God. The greater and more pressing his labors, the more constant and earnest were his prayers. He
87
continued to exclude himself, at certain periods, from all society. After remaining for a time among the people, laboring to benefit them by instruction and example, he would withdraw, to spend a season in solitude, hungering and thirsting for that divine knowledge which God alone can impart. Communing thus with God, Enoch came more and more to reflect the divine image. His face was radiant with a holy light, even the light that shineth in the face of Jesus. As he came forth from these divine communings, even the ungodly beheld with awe the impress of heaven upon his countenance. {PP 86.4}

The wickedness of men had reached such a height that destruction was pronounced against them. As year after year passed on, deeper and deeper grew the tide of human guilt, darker and darker gathered the clouds of divine judgment. Yet Enoch, the witness of faith, held on his way, warning, pleading, entreating, striving to turn back the tide of guilt and to stay the bolts of vengeance. Though his warnings were disregarded by a sinful, pleasure-loving people, he had the testimony that God approved, and he continued to battle faithfully against the prevailing evil, until God removed him from a world of sin to the pure joys of heaven. {PP 87.1}

The men of that generation had mocked the folly of him who sought not to gather gold or silver or to build up possessions here. But Enoch's heart was upon eternal treasures. He had looked upon the celestial city. He had seen the King in His glory in the midst of Zion. His mind, his heart, his conversation, were in heaven. The greater the existing iniquity, the more earnest was his longing for the home of God. While still on earth, he dwelt, by faith, in the realms of light. {PP 87.2}

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Matthew 5:8. For three hundred years Enoch had been seeking purity of soul, that he might be in harmony with Heaven. For three centuries he had walked with God. Day by day he had longed for a closer union; nearer and nearer had grown the communion, until God took him to Himself. He had stood at the threshold of the eternal world, only a step between him and the land of the blest; and now the portals opened, the walk with God, so long pursued on earth, continued, and he passed through the gates of the Holy City--the first from among men to enter there.
88
{PP 87.3}

His loss was felt on earth. The voice that had been heard day after day in warning and instruction was missed. There were some, both of the righteous and the wicked, who had witnessed his departure; and hoping that he might have been conveyed to some one of his places of retirement, those who loved him made diligent search, as afterward the sons of the prophets searched for Elijah; but without avail. They reported that he was not, for God had taken him. {PP 88.1}

By the translation of Enoch the Lord designed to teach an important lesson. There was danger that men would yield to discouragement, because of the fearful results of Adam's sin. Many were ready to exclaim, "What profit is it that we have feared the Lord and have kept His ordinances, since a heavy curse is resting upon the race, and death is the portion of us all?" But the instructions which God gave to Adam, and which were repeated by Seth, and exemplified by Enoch, swept away the gloom and darkness, and gave hope to man, that as through Adam came death, so through the promised Redeemer would come life and immortality. Satan was urging upon men the belief that there was no reward for the righteous or punishment for the wicked, and that it was impossible for men to obey the divine statutes. But in the case of Enoch, God declares "that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:6. He shows what He will do for those who keep His commandments. Men were taught that it is possible to obey the law of God; that even while living in the midst of the sinful and corrupt, they were able, by the grace of God, to resist temptation, and become pure and holy. They saw in his example the blessedness of such a life; and his translation was an evidence of the truth of his prophecy concerning the hereafter, with its award of joy and glory and immortal life to the obedient, and of condemnation, woe, and death to the transgressor. {PP 88.2}

By faith Enoch "was translated that he should not see death; . . . for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." Hebrews 11:5. In the midst of a world by its iniquity doomed to destruction, Enoch lived a life of such close communion with God that he was not permitted to fall under the power of death.

 

[BobRyan]

Then of course we have your claims that Ellen White did not admit to the Bible fact that Enoch lives 300 years, then Methuselah lives for almost 1000 years - dying the year of the flood -

Amid the prevailing corruption, Methuselah, Noah, and many others labored to keep alive the knowledge of the true God and to stay the tide of moral evil. A hundred and twenty years before the Flood, the Lord by a holy angel declared to Noah His purpose, and directed him to build an ark. While building the ark he was to preach that God would bring a flood of water upon the earth to destroy the wicked. Those who would believe the message, and would prepare for that event by repentance and reformation, should find pardon and be saved. Enoch had repeated to his children what God had shown him in regard to the Flood, and Methuselah and his sons, who lived to hear the preaching of Noah, assisted in building the ark. {PP 92.2}

God gave Noah the exact dimensions of the ark and explicit directions in regard to its construction in every particular. Human wisdom could not have devised a structure of so great strength and durability. God was the designer, and Noah the master builder. It was constructed like the hull of a ship, that it might float upon the water, but in some respects it more nearly resembled a house. It was three stories high, with but one door, which was in the side. The light was admitted at the top, and the different apartments were so arranged that all were lighted. The material employed in the construction of the ark was the cypress, or gopher wood, which would be untouched by decay for hundreds of years. The building of this immense structure was a slow and laborious process. On account of the great size of the trees and the nature of the wood, much more labor was required then than now to prepare timber, even with the greater strength which men then possessed. All that man could do was done to render the work perfect, yet the ark could not of itself have withstood the storm which was to come upon the earth. God alone could preserve His servants upon the tempestuous waters. {PP 92.3}

...

Many at first appeared to receive the warning; yet they did not turn to God with true repentance. They were unwilling to renounce their sins. During the time that elapsed before the coming of the Flood, their faith was tested, and they failed to endure the trial. Overcome by the prevailing unbelief, they finally joined their former associates in rejecting the solemn message. Some were deeply convicted, and would have heeded the words of warning; but there were so many to jest and ridicule, that they partook of the same spirit, resisted the invitations of mercy, and were soon among the boldest and most defiant scoffers; for none are so reckless and go to such lengths in sin as do those who have once had light, but have resisted the convicting Spirit of God. {PP 95.2}

The men of that generation were not all, in the fullest acceptation of the term, idolaters. Many professed to be worshipers of God. They claimed that their idols were representations of the Deity, and that through them the people could obtain a clearer conception of the divine Being. This class were foremost in rejecting the preaching of Noah. As they endeavored to represent God by material objects, their minds were blinded to His majesty and power; they ceased to realize the holiness of His character, or the sacred, unchanging nature of His requirements. As sin became general, it appeared less and less sinful, and they finally declared that the divine law was no longer in force; that it was contrary to the character of God to punish transgression; and they denied that His judgments were to be visited upon the earth. Had the men of that generation obeyed the divine law, they would have recognized the voice of God in the warning of His servant; but their minds had become so blinded by rejection of light that they really believed Noah's message to be a delusion. {PP 95.3}

It was not multitudes or majorities that were on the side of right. The world was arrayed against God's justice and His laws, and Noah was regarded as a fanatic. ...

The world before the Flood reasoned that for centuries the laws of nature had been fixed. The recurring seasons had come in their order. Heretofore rain had never fallen; the earth had been watered by a mist or dew. The rivers had never yet passed their boundaries, but had borne their waters safely to the sea. Fixed decrees had kept the waters from overflowing their banks. But these reasoners did not recognize the hand of Him who had stayed the waters, saying, "Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further." Job 38:11. {PP 96.3}

As time passed on, with no apparent change in nature, men whose hearts had at times trembled with fear, began to be reassured. They reasoned, as many reason now, that nature is above the God of nature, and that her laws are so firmly established that God Himself could not change them. Reasoning that if the message of Noah were correct, nature would be turned out of her course, they made that message, in the minds of the world, a delusion--a grand deception. They manifested their contempt for the warning of God by doing just as they had done before the warning was given. They continued their festivities and their gluttonous feasts; they ate and drank, planted and builded, laying their plans in reference to advantages they hoped to gain in the future; and they went to greater lengths in wickedness, and in defiant disregard of God's requirements, to testify that they had no fear of the Infinite One. They asserted that if there were any truth in what Noah had said, the men of renown--the wise, the prudent, the great men--would understand the matter. {PP 97.1}

Had the antediluvians believed the warning, and repented of their evil deeds, the Lord would have turned aside His wrath, as He afterward did from Nineveh. But by their obstinate resistance to the reproofs of conscience and the warnings of God's prophet, that generation filled up the measure of their iniquity, and became ripe for destruction. {PP 97.2}

The period of their probation was about to expire. Noah had faithfully followed the instructions which he had received from God. The ark was finished in every part as the Lord had directed, and was stored with food for man and beast. And now the servant of God made his last solemn appeal to the people. With an agony of desire that words cannot express, he entreated them to seek a refuge while it might be found. Again they rejected his words, and raised their voices in jest and scoffing. Suddenly a silence fell upon the mocking throng. Beasts of every description, the fiercest as well as the most gentle, were seen coming from mountain and forest and quietly making their way toward the ark. A noise as of a rushing wind was heard, and lo, birds were flocking from all directions, their numbers darkening the heavens, and in perfect order they passed to the ark. Animals obeyed the command of God, while men were disobedient. Guided by holy angels, they "went in two and two unto Noah into the ark," and the clean beasts by sevens. The world looked on in wonder, some in fear. Philosophers were called upon to account for the singular occurrence, but in vain. It was a mystery which they could not fathom. But men had become so hardened by their persistent rejection of light that even this scene produced but a momentary impression. As the doomed race beheld the sun shining in its glory, and the earth clad in almost Eden beauty, they banished their rising fears by boisterous merriment, and by their deeds of violence they seemed to invite upon themselves the visitation of the already awakened wrath of God. {PP 97.3}

God commanded Noah, "Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before Me in this generation." Noah's warnings had been rejected by the world, but his influence and example resulted in blessings to his family. As a reward for his faithfulness and integrity, God saved all the members of his family with him. What encouragement to parental fidelity! {PP 98.1}

 

[BobRyan]

For those curious about the description of the flood itself - a bonus

Mercy had ceased its pleadings for the guilty race. The beasts of the field and the birds of the air had entered the place of refuge. Noah and his household were within the ark, "and the Lord shut him in." A flash of dazzling light was seen, and a cloud of glory more vivid than the lightning descended from heaven and hovered before the entrance of the ark. The massive door, which it was impossible for those within to close, was slowly swung to its place by unseen hands. Noah was shut in, and the rejecters of God's mercy were shut out. The seal of Heaven was on that door; God had shut it, and God alone could open it. So when Christ shall cease His intercession for guilty men, before His coming in the clouds of heaven, the door of mercy will be shut. Then divine grace will no longer restrain the wicked, and Satan will have full control of those who have rejected mercy. They will endeavor to destroy God's people; but as Noah was shut into the ark, so the righteous will be shielded by divine power. {PP 98.2}

For seven days after Noah and his family entered the ark, there appeared no sign of the coming storm. During this period their faith was tested. It was a time of triumph to the world without. The apparent delay confirmed them in the belief that Noah's message was a delusion, and that the Flood would never come. Notwithstanding the solemn scenes which they had witnessed--the beasts and birds entering the ark, and the angel of God closing the door--they still continued their sport and revelry, even making a jest of these signal manifestations of God's power. They gathered in crowds about the ark, deriding its inmates with a daring violence which they had never ventured upon before. {PP 98.3}

But upon the eighth day dark clouds overspread the heavens. There followed the muttering of thunder and the flash of lightning. Soon large drops of rain began to fall. The world had never witnessed anything like this, and the hearts of men were struck with fear. All were secretly inquiring, "Can it be that Noah was in the right, and that the world is doomed to destruction?" Darker and darker grew the heavens, and faster came the falling rain. The beasts were roaming about in the wildest terror, and their discordant cries seemed to moan out their own destiny and the fate of man. Then "the fountains of the great deep" were "broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." Water appeared to come from the clouds in mighty cataracts. Rivers broke away from their boundaries, and overflowed the valleys. Jets of water burst from the earth with indescribable force, throwing massive rocks hundreds of feet into the air, and these, in falling, buried themselves deep in the ground. {PP 99.1}

The people first beheld the destruction of the works of their own hands. Their splendid buildings, and the beautiful gardens and groves where they had placed their idols, were destroyed by lightning from heaven, and the ruins were scattered far and wide. The altars on which human sacrifices had been offered were torn down, and the worshipers were made to tremble at the power of the living God, and to know that it was their corruption and idolatry which had called down their destruction. {PP 99.2}

As the violence of the storm increased, trees, buildings, rocks, and earth were hurled in every direction. The terror of man and beast was beyond description. Above the roar of the tempest was heard the wailing of a people that had despised the authority of God. Satan himself, who was compelled to remain in the midst of the warring elements, feared for his own existence. He had delighted to control so powerful a race, and desired them to live to practice their abominations and continue their rebellion against the Ruler of heaven. He now uttered imprecations against God, charging Him with injustice and cruelty. Many of the people, like Satan, blasphemed God, and had they been able, they would have torn Him from the throne of power. Others were frantic with fear, stretching their hands toward the ark and pleading for admittance. But their entreaties were in vain. Conscience was at last aroused to know that there is a God who ruleth in the heavens. They called upon Him earnestly, but His ear was not open to their cry. In that terrible hour they saw that the transgression of God's law had caused their ruin. Yet while, through fear of punishment, they acknowledged their sin, they felt no true contrition, no abhorrence of evil. They would have returned to their defiance of Heaven, had the judgment been removed. So when God's judgments shall fall upon the earth before its deluge by fire, the impenitent will know just where and what their sin is--the despising of His holy law. Yet they will have no more true repentance than did the old-world sinners. {PP 99.3}

Some in their desperation endeavored to break into the ark, but the firm-made structure withstood their efforts. Some clung to the ark until they were borne away by the surging waters, or their hold was broken by collision with rocks and trees. The massive ark trembled in every fiber as it was beaten by the merciless winds and flung from billow to billow. The cries of the beasts within expressed their fear and pain. But amid the warring elements it continued to ride safely. Angels that excel in strength were commissioned to preserve it. {PP 100.1}

The beasts, exposed to the tempest, rushed toward man, as though expecting help from him. Some of the people bound their children and themselves upon powerful animals, knowing that these were tenacious of life, and would climb to the highest points to escape the rising waters. Some fastened themselves to lofty trees on the summit of hills or mountains; but the trees were uprooted, and with their burden of living beings were hurled into the seething billows. One spot after another that promised safety was abandoned. As the waters rose higher and higher, the people fled for refuge to the loftiest mountains. Often man and beast would struggle together for a foothold, until both were swept away. {PP 100.2}

From the highest peaks men looked abroad upon a shoreless ocean. The solemn warnings of God's servant no longer seemed a subject for ridicule and scorning. How those doomed sinners longed for the opportunities which they had slighted! How they pleaded for one hour's probation, one more privilege of mercy, one call from the lips of Noah! But the sweet voice of mercy was no more to be heard by them. Love, no less than justice, demanded that God's judgments should put a check on sin. The avenging waters swept over the last retreat, and the despisers of God perished in the black depths. {PP 100.3}

 

[donnA]

I found a fuller quote of this:
"But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one." SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129

Yes, or no? Either Jesus Christ was God, or He was not. Fully God and fully man. not half and half, not one but not the other. If Jesus was not God then we are all hopelessly lost and condemned to hell. If He was fully God, then the word of God is not a lie.

Sorry folks. EGW was a false prophet, and yet the SDA have no problem with her or her false teachings? Something is very wrong with that.

if He wasn't God, or was not fully God(while being fully man), then His sacrifice is meaningless.
how anyone who beleives the bible can defend a false prophet is beyond me, unless they prefer to trust people not God and His written word.

 

[Marcia]

While it is true that many believe the phrase "the angel of the Lord" refers to the pre-incarnate Jesus (where "angel" means "messenger"), Ellen White taught that Michael the Archangel (a very specifically named angel - a created being) was Jesus.

Seventh-day Adventists, in the early days, denied the Trinity, but now they accept it. However, they have "leftovers" from this heresy. Ellen G. White wrote in Patriarchs and Prophets, page 761, "...He (Jesus) was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord's Host, Michael the Archangel".


Adventists, you can't have it both ways! Either Jesus Christ is God, or He is some kind of an Angel. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth to try to cover up embarrassing statements by Ellen G. White. They won't tell you she was wrong - when its "her or the Bible", she always wins!

http://www.mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_day_adventists/sda_facts.html

Most Christians are amazed to learn that SDA teaches that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, but Ellen White said He was Michael, so if they changed this, they'd need to reject her as 'the spirit of prophecy' and they'd not be the remnant church! So now they hold He's both God the Son, and Michael.


It makes a great difference who Jesus really is for 2 Cor 11:4 says, there'll be those who teach another Jesus, preach a different gospel and have another spirit. These marks identify cults, who invariably attack the Doctrine of Christ. Early SDA denied His deity saying He's the archangel. Their Commentary vol 5 p 1129 cites Ellen "The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty"


I Tim 2:5; Heb 7:4; Rev 17:14; 15:3 &16:5-7 show He is Almighty God.
The real Jesus is the God-man Christ Jesus. He was never an Archangel! He's not God-angel-man. So SDA has a different Jesus. But Ellen White said:
"Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses" (Jude 9, Spiritual Gifts, IV a, p. 158)
"And before the context closed Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid---Gabriel declares 'But lo, Michael, one of the Chief Princes came to help me" (Dan 10:13, Prophets & Kings, p.572)
"There is none that holdeth with me in these things but Michael (Christ) your prince." (Desire of Ages p.99)
"Moses passed under the dominion of death - but Christ the Savior brought him forth from the grave. Jude 9" (ibid 379)

SDA use her 'gift' to prove He is Michael as seen from their Commentary vol 4, p. 860 where they appeal to her writings as their final authority; and that Michael standing up in Dan 12:1 is Jesus ending his mediation for us, quoting Desire of Ages p.379. In 1 Ths 4:16 they reason as He's coming with the voice of the archangel, then He must be Michael! To allow this, they redefine what an Archangel is, in vol. 7, p. 706 -- Michael is one of the names of Christ -- not as the chief angel, but as the ruler over the angels'. Here they say 'an archangel is not an angel', but is an Archbishop a bishop, or the Chief of police, a police? Isa 8:20 "If they speak not according to this Word, there is no light in them".


We must show the Bible definition of this, to see how wrong their redefinition is. To evade this test of Scripture, SDA have made their own Clear Word Bible (1994), adding E.G. White's interpretations into the text!


1 Ths 4:16 "When Christ descends from heaven, He, as the Archangel will" ---
Rev 12:7 "God's Son Michael and the loyal angels fought."
Jude 9 "the Lord Jesus Christ, also called Michael the Archangel"
Dan 10:13 "then Michael, the prince of the Lord's host, came to help me"
While their commentary tried to accommodate Ellen by saying an archangel is not an angel, now their Clear Word Bible actually making Christ into an angel!
Rev 10:1 "Next I saw a mighty Angel --- I knew it was the Lord Jesus"
Rev 10:5 "Then this mighty Angel, the Lord Jesus ---"
Rev 10:8+9 (--take the book from the Mighty Angel--) "So I went up to the Son of God and asked --- "

http://www.macgregorministries.org/seventh_day_adventists/jesusismichael.html

Also see
http://www.truthorfables.com/Is_Michael_Christ.htm

 

[BobRyan]

But I am sure that Targus is wanting "more on Metheselah" and far be it from me to deny him his quest -

Noah and his family were not alone in fearing and obeying God. But Noah was the most pious and holy of any upon the earth, and was the one whose life God preserved to carry out His will in building the ark and warning the world of its coming doom. Methuselah, the grandfather of Noah, lived until the very year of the Flood; and there were others who believed the preaching of Noah, and aided him in building the ark, who died before the flood of waters came upon the earth. Noah, by his preaching and example in building the ark, condemned the world. {SR 63.1}

The Word of God includes the Scriptures of the Old Testament as well as of the New. One is not complete without the other. Christ declared that the truths of the Old Testament are as valuable as those of the New. Christ was as much man's Redeemer in the beginning of the world as He is today. Before He clothed His divinity with humanity, and came to our world, the Gospel message was given by Adam, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, and Noah. Abraham in Canaan, and Lot in Sodom, bore the message, and from generation to generation faithful messengers proclaimed the coming One. He was the foundation of their system of sacrificial offerings, the great Antitype of all their religious services. The blood shed as the sacrifices were offered pointed to the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. All the typical offerings were fulfilled in Him. {ST, June 20, 1906 par. 2}

This hope of redemption through the advent of the Son of God as Saviour and King, has never become extinct in the hearts of men. From the beginning there have been some whose faith has reached out beyond the shadows of the present to the realities of the future. Adam, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-- through these and other worthies the Lord has preserved the precious revealings of His will. And it was thus that to the children of Israel, the chosen people through whom was to be given to the world the promised Messiah, God imparted a knowledge of the requirements of His law, and of the salvation to be accomplished through the atoning sacrifice of His beloved Son. {PK 682.2}