2 Kingdoms

[Amy.G]

This came up in another thread. Is there a difference between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God?

These verses seem to say they are the same.

Mt*19:23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mt*19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[AnotherBaptist]

Look closer at the two passages. Which one is merely "hard" for the rich man and which one is impossible? Here's a breakdown of the usage of the two terms in the Gospels:

Matthew
--------
Kingdom of God = 4 times
Kingdom of heaven = 32 times

Mark
----
Kingdom of God = 14 times
Kingdom of heaven = 0 times

Luke
----
Kingdom of God = 32 times
Kingdom of heaven = 0 times

John
----
Kingdom of God = 2 times
Kingdom of heaven = 0 times

Only Matthew quoted Jesus as saying "kingdom of heaven". Same Greek. Same Jesus. And in some cases the same situation. There was a reason.

 

[pinoybaptist]

...................................................
Only Matthew quoted Jesus as saying "kingdom of heaven". Same Greek. Same Jesus. And in some cases the same situation. There was a reason.

What do you think was the reason ?
I am really curious.

 

[canadyjd]

Matthew was written to Jews. He wanted them to understand the Kingdom of God was to be a heavenly Kingdom, not an earthly Kingdom.

So, the emphasis on the "Kingdom of heaven".

They are the same.

peace to youraying:

 

[RAdam]

So when Paul refers to it as the "kingdom of His dear Son" was he referring to yet another kingdom?

 

[Amy.G]

Look closer at the two passages. Which one is merely "hard" for the rich man and which one is impossible? Here's a breakdown of the usage of the two terms in the Gospels:

Matthew
--------
Kingdom of God = 4 times
Kingdom of heaven = 32 times

Mark
----
Kingdom of God = 14 times
Kingdom of heaven = 0 times

Luke
----
Kingdom of God = 32 times
Kingdom of heaven = 0 times

John
----
Kingdom of God = 2 times
Kingdom of heaven = 0 times

Only Matthew quoted Jesus as saying "kingdom of heaven". Same Greek. Same Jesus. And in some cases the same situation. There was a reason.

What was the reason? I'm not seeing it.

 

[exscentric]

Consider

Matt 19 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mk 10 23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

 

[Steven2006]

I have always believed Matthew used heaven instead of God because of his Jewish audience. Writing "God" would have been offensive to them.

I grew up with many Jewish friends and I know that they are not comfortable writing down "God". If you ever see a devout Jew writing he will usually write something like G-d or G*d rather than spelling it out.

 

[AnotherBaptist]

Matthew was written to Jews. He wanted them to understand the Kingdom of God was to be a heavenly Kingdom, not an earthly Kingdom.

So, the emphasis on the "Kingdom of heaven".

They are the same.

peace to youraying:

So when this parable is told by Jesus describing the kingdom of heaven, what does it mean to you?:

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till it was all leavened.

Leaven always refers to sin in the Bible. So is this passage saying the kingdom of God is full of sin?

 

[AnotherBaptist]

What was the reason? I'm not seeing it.

You have to look at all the other passages in Matthew which refer to the "kingdom of heaven" before you can "see" it. I just covered one above.

 

[Amy.G]

I have always believed Matthew used heaven instead of God because of his Jewish audience. Writing "God" would have been offensive to them.

I grew up with many Jewish friends and I know that they are not comfortable writing down "God". If you ever see a devout Jew writing he will usually write something like G-d or G*d rather than spelling it out.

But in verse 23, he does use "God". He uses "God" many times in his gospel. In fact it occurs 57 times in the King James Bible in the book of Matthew.

 

[Amy.G]

You have to look at all the other passages in Matthew which refer to the "kingdom of heaven" before you can "see" it. I just covered one above.

Actually, you didn't cover it, because you didn't tell us what the difference is.



What am I missing? What is the difference?

Is this a secret?

 

[canadyjd]

So when this parable is told by Jesus describing the kingdom of heaven, what does it mean to you?:

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till it was all leavened.

Leaven always refers to sin in the Bible. So is this passage saying the kingdom of God is full of sin?

Obviously, leaven is not referring to sin in this verse.

Considering the context (various parables concerning seeds and growth), it appears Jesus is referring to how the Kingdom of heaven will grow. Like leaven put into mean will spread, the kingdom of heaven will grow until all is full.

peace to youraying:

 

[MovieProducer]

Get the book "Eight Kingdoms" by Michael Pearl. It's fascinating.

His premise is that the gospels reveal a distinction between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. One way the characteristics of the kingdoms are revealed is by the subtle differences in the how the gospels treat parallel accounts of, for instance, parables.

Another is how a parable about one kingdom has no parallel for the other, like the parable of the treasure hid in a field, or the one about the pearl of great price.

Men make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven (Mt. 19:12), but no such statement is made regarding the kingdom of God. Good thing!

Mt. 25 is another mind-popping example. He's talking about what the kingdom of heaven will be like after the events described in chapter 24. In those days, the kingdom of heaven will require good works for salvation -- those who don't do these good works will "go away into everlasting punishment."

If the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are the same, then this passage is applicable to us today, and salvation is by good works.

I highly recommend the book.

 

[MovieProducer]

Obviously, leaven is not referring to sin in this verse.

Considering the context (various parables concerning seeds and growth), it appears Jesus is referring to how the Kingdom of heaven will grow. Like leaven put into mean will spread, the kingdom of heaven will grow until all is full.

peace to youraying:

In Mt. 16 Jesus explains that "leaven" is the false doctrine of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The parable of the leaven in Mt. 13, like the previous two, illustrates the corruption of the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Steven2006]

But in verse 23, he does use "God". He uses "God" many times in his gospel. In fact it occurs 57 times in the King James Bible in the book of Matthew.

That's a good point. I don't know the reasoning behind why he chose those specific instances, but I always thought it was because he was writing to Jews, was sensitive to that, and that was the difference in his use of heaven at times instead of God.

 

[MovieProducer]

Peter was a Jew, and he said Jesus was "the Son of the living God." Jesus himself used "God," like when he quoted scripture to Satan during his temptation.

 

[Steven2006]

I just looked it up in my Holman Bible Dictionary. Here is what it says.

"Jesus spoke Aramaic; the gospel writers translated Jesus sermons and parables into Greek. Mark, Luke, and John translated Jesus words as "kingdom of God" Matthew sometimes used this phrase too, but often he preferred to translate Jesus Aramaic words as "kingdom of heaven". The two phrases mean exactly the same thing, because they are translations of the same Aramaic words of Jesus."

 

[canadyjd]

In Mt. 16 Jesus explains that "leaven" is the false doctrine of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The parable of the leaven in Mt. 13, like the previous two, illustrates the corruption of the kingdom of heaven.

OK, first you said leaven "always" refers to sin.

Now, you say it refers to false doctrine (in Matt. 16: which it clearly does) and the "corruption of the Kingdom" in Matt. 13.

Although I can see, perhaps, how you see the corruption of the kingdom in the tares and the wheat. The tares and the wheat demonstrate the kingdom will come about despite the efforts of satan to sow false disciples among true disciples. At the time of the reaping, both will be shown for what they are, and the kingdom of heaven is still preserved.

Explain how you see the parable of the mustard seed as referring to corruption of the kingdom.

peace to youraying:

 

[MovieProducer]

I just looked it up in my Holman Bible Dictionary. Here is what it says.

"Jesus spoke Aramaic; the gospel writers translated Jesus sermons and parables into Greek. Mark, Luke, and John translated Jesus words as "kingdom of God" Matthew sometimes used this phrase too, but often he preferred to translate Jesus Aramaic words as "kingdom of heaven". The two phrases mean exactly the same thing, because they are translations of the same Aramaic words of Jesus."

Yep, that's what I was taught, but I think this commentator is wrong. For one thing, there is no way to get actual proof that Jesus used the same Aramaic words, that he didn't make a distinction. Since that's the very question at issue, his assertion merely begs the question.

There are so many differences between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God that I'm convinced it's a deliberate distinction. The different terms are no accident.