Pastor and alcohol

Just because Jesus turned the water into wine does not mean it was alcoholic.

 

And just because a man is married doesn't mean he isn't a bachelor.

 

Saying the wine Christ created wasn't alcoholic is kinda like trying to say Kentucky Fried Chicken doesn't have any chicken.

The one obligates the other.

 

Indeed. Funny how people could accuse him of being a drunkard, what with non-alcoholic wine not causing drunkenness and all.

 

The word wine can be used for fermented or non fermented. Of course those with no agenda to excuse their use of alcohol need to worry about it.

 

The word may be used for either, but the context of its use, at least in John 2, requires fermented alcoholic wine. Jesus would not have gotten compliments about "good wine" in John 10:2 for showing up with fresh grape juice.

Similarly, in Matthew 11:19 it is stated that Jesus was accused of drunkenness. Clearly he did not get drunk, but logically he couldn't have even been accused of that if he merely had a glass of Welch's.

Again, drunkenness is clearly sin. I doubt any here would argue otherwise. However, use that doesn't lead to drunkenness is an area of liberty, and those who do so need not "excuse" their choice. Pastors are called to a high level of holiness, living above reproach, and not being addicted to wine. Some may choose abstinence, while others may not, and depending upon the leading of the spirit, that is fine.

That said, I fear that some folks (certainly NOT all) holding the position of across-the-board teetotalism for pastors (or all Christians, for that matter) may be vainly seeking a higher level of holiness than Jesus' perfect example. Legalism can be as dangerous as license.

Praying for Gospel unity even in areas of disagreement,

 

Not sure how you came to that conclusion but it is false.

Just because others drank it even when he was in the area is not evidence that Christ did.

Scripture gives room for deacons but not pastors. Scripture is clear.

Disagreement in areas such as this need not be characterized as legalism. I do not hold to the notion that all Christians should never drink any amount of alcohol. Scripture does not bear that out. But Paul was blunt when it comes to pastors. Just because someone else drank elsewhere is not evidence that pastors should be able to or that paul meant something else.

Unity can only be found in scripture but charity in the face of disunity is not impossible.

 

Prov. 31:4
it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

 

This leadership principle most certainly carried over with pastors.

 

I've made my point, and you don't agree, which is of course your right. Respectfully, I'll respond to you with the same basic thought: Your conclusions in this area are indeed false.

It's clear we won't find unity in this area, though I will still pray for unity in the Gospel essentials. That said, in the interest of charity, and with a sincere desire not to offend, I will not continue further in this discussion.

Blessings on you, brother!

 

I'm not offended. This is just not an issue that would concern me all that much one way or the other. Unless it was one of my staff members.

 

I like beer. Actually, I like beer a lot (please note that I said that I like beer a lot, not that I like a lot of beer). But it just wouldn't be wise for me to drink it. I believe that I have the liberty to enjoy a beer here and there in moderation, but that my liberty has to take a back seat to a weaker brother or sister's sensitivity to alcohol and their walk with Christ.

I have no problem with someone drinking in moderation, as I feel that the Bible's prohibition is against drunkenness, not against drinking itself, but for me, it wouldn't be a wise thing to do. And I can show you all of the relevant verses and passages, but it's been discussed so often here that you probably alreay know them all by heart.

Now, that having been said, there have been a couple of times in the last two years or so, that I did "cheat" and have a beer or two. About half of those times, I got terribly sick, even though I only drank a minimal amount. I chalk that up to age more than any kind of divine retribution.

So, even if I was in a situation where I could have a drink, I wouldn't, for fear of getting sick.