Are ya'll being nice to ....

[menageriekeeper]

Man, are we headed into a mess.

I can't disagree.

How much are they paying? Me: $11.75 plus mileage. Paul and Trotter might have a different scale.

Thirty peices of silver? No more than pumping gas for BP.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

[Which is dishonest on the governments part.

Well, no. We aren't law enforcement. If the government wanted to count illegals then we would need special training and we would work for immigration rather than commerce.

We're not cops. What are we supposed to do, Rev? This is the Department of Commerce, not the INS. And, yes, all residents count for purposes of representation.

How much are they paying? Me: $11.75 plus mileage. Paul and Trotter might have a different scale.

$15/ hour here.

How much longer will they use you?

My appointment is until June 22. It could be extended if they need us longer, or it could be shorter if we finish sooner.

 

[poncho]

I can't disagree.

How much are they paying? Me: $11.75 plus mileage. Paul and Trotter might have a different scale.

Thirty peices of silver? No more than pumping gas for BP.

BP, (the last I knew) doesn't pay people to go around acting as if they serve a legitimate role in government.

So, what does happen when someone refuses to answer all the questions in your unconstitutional "questionaire" do you call the thugs and goons in yourself or do you just follow orders and make note of the time and address and leave that dirty little deed up to your "superiors".

Just curious. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[menageriekeeper]

So, what does happen when someone refuses to answer all the questions in your unconstitutional "questionaire" do you call the thugs and goons in yourself or do you just follow orders and make note of the time and address and leave that dirty little deed up to your "superiors".

Well I don't know what Paul and Trotter do, but I was told to get the info from a neighbor if possible. Just kidding. We only go to the neighbors if we can't find anyone at home the 3 times we are allowed to visit. If someone refuses to answer, we make note of the refusal and go on. Its not up to us what happens next, but when was the last time you heard of someone getting arrested because they refused to answer the census?

 

[FR7 Baptist]

BP, (the last I knew) doesn't pay people to go around acting as if they serve a legitimate role in government.

So, what does happen when someone refuses to answer your "questionaire" do you call the thugs and goons in yourself or do you just follow orders and make note of the time and address and leave that dirty little deed up to your "superiors".

You've got issues, dude.

In a refusal, we don't argue with the resident. We just file a D-225 against them and then turn it in and they will follow up. We can still get the information through other means. For example, I had a refusal in an apartment complex on Saturday. This female person opened the door and then slammed it shut after I introduced myself. (I guess her parents didn't teach her any manners. That's not the way you should act when you meet new people.) As I went to another apartment, she came outside with a cordless phone and told me she was going to call all of her friends and tell them not to answer the door. I just told her "Okay, have fun" and continued on. I'm going to finish enumerating this apartment complex that evening, to catch all of the people who weren't there the last two times I came. (I can make three personal visits. I do one on a weekday during the day, one on a weekday evening, and one on Saturday.) So, for that female person's apartment, I filed a D-225 against her, and I'm not going back to her apartment. For those who refuse and those who were not there all three times, I have an appointment with the apartment manager tomorrow and she's going to give me the information for those. She doesn't have all of the things on the form, but it's enough to get them counted.

In other cases, we will interview the neighbors. In one case, I used a mailman to get information on a vacant house. If a house is for sale and appears vacant and there is a sign out front, I will call the real estate agent to confirm that it's vacant. The basic procedure is the same for both refusals and cases where a resident can not be contacted except we don't D-225 houses if it's just a matter of inability to contact a resident.. However, in some extreme refusal cases, I was told supervisors will go back with law enforcement.

 

[preachinjesus]

Seems to me there's something in scripture about obeying the higher authority. In this country the higher authorites are God and the U.S. constitution.

Don't attempt to obfuscate this issue by changing the terms. As a follower of Christ you are bound to follow the laws and decrees of your God placed leaders and however they choose to execute their offices, insofar as it does not compromise your Christian principles.

In this country the federal government (in this case) is bound by their Constitutional obligation to take a Census. The Constitution thus also gives a great bit of latitude to those elected officials to prescribe laws to ensure the effective carrying out of these means.

Now you (and others) have a good issue about the extra questions, yet through our Constitutionally prescribed due process system they have been challenged, reviewed, and decided that they are indeed within the keeping of the charge given by the Constitution. The case law is simple and straightforward here, for once.

Thus the laws passed to ensure the effective carrying out of the Constitution requirement of a decennial census. Our country is not governed solely by the Constitution, rather the Constitution sets the boundaries within which existing laws must act. This is a law from your God placed rulers...it has been reproved through our system...it is law.

Our elected public servants are just that public servants. They are not above the law (as you seem to be implying here by misinterpreting scripture) which in this case is the constitution and the constitution says there are two reasons for a census. No more no less.

Obviously you have not had a lot of time to study Constitutional law. That is sad because as mentioned above the Constitution, even under the most strict interpretation, is a device to frame continued governance. The Census and its few questions are within those bounds.

Now as for misinterpretting Scripture, show me where the Constitution work itself into the New Testament command to submit to those who rule you? Titus 3:1; Romans 13.

Caesar (to use a biblical analogy) has asked for your obedience in this regard, you are commanded to submit to his request and give it to him.

It says nothing about gathering personal information from citizens so giant corporations can figure out how to target consumers better nor does it say anything about gathering personal information so socialists can figure out how to better distribute the wealth they steal from some to give to others.

And if the courts uphold such goings on then the courts themselves have been corupted by thinking it's "constitutional" for them to legislate from the bench.

Well the due process system set up by the Constitution to challenge laws passed by Congress in accordance with their obligations according to the Constitution has said these questions are legal and binding for the citizenry. Your objection is moot.

Because it is not. Just doing something over and over doesn't make it right or legal.

Show me the case law that makes this illegal. Show the wording the Constitution and the US Code that limits the Census to only numbers and explicitly forbids any other action.

Your obligation is thus to obey your God appointed rulers, fill out the form, send it in, and then (if you choose) vote for someone else next term.

 

[Revmitchell]

Don't attempt to obfuscate this issue by changing the terms. As a follower of Christ you are bound to follow the laws and decrees of your God placed leaders and however they choose to execute their offices, insofar as it does not compromise your Christian principles.

In this country the federal government (in this case) is bound by their Constitutional obligation to take a Census. The Constitution thus also gives a great bit of latitude to those elected officials to prescribe laws to ensure the effective carrying out of these means.

Now you (and others) have a good issue about the extra questions, yet through our Constitutionally prescribed due process system they have been challenged, reviewed, and decided that they are indeed within the keeping of the charge given by the Constitution. The case law is simple and straightforward here, for once.

Thus the laws passed to ensure the effective carrying out of the Constitution requirement of a decennial census. Our country is not governed solely by the Constitution, rather the Constitution sets the boundaries within which existing laws must act. This is a law from your God placed rulers...it has been reproved through our system...it is law.



Obviously you have not had a lot of time to study Constitutional law. That is sad because as mentioned above the Constitution, even under the most strict interpretation, is a device to frame continued governance. The Census and its few questions are within those bounds.

Now as for misinterpretting Scripture, show me where the Constitution work itself into the New Testament command to submit to those who rule you? Titus 3:1; Romans 13.

Caesar (to use a biblical analogy) has asked for your obedience in this regard, you are commanded to submit to his request and give it to him.



Well the due process system set up by the Constitution to challenge laws passed by Congress in accordance with their obligations according to the Constitution has said these questions are legal and binding for the citizenry. Your objection is moot.



Show me the case law that makes this illegal. Show the wording the Constitution and the US Code that limits the Census to only numbers and explicitly forbids any other action.

Your obligation is thus to obey your God appointed rulers, fill out the form, send it in, and then (if you choose) vote for someone else next term.

And just why are you so passionate about the census of all things?

 

[poncho]

Don't attempt to obfuscate this issue by changing the terms. As a follower of Christ you are bound to follow the laws and decrees of your God placed leaders and however they choose to execute their offices, insofar as it does not compromise your Christian principles.

In this country the federal government (in this case) is bound by their Constitutional obligation to take a Census. The Constitution thus also gives a great bit of latitude to those elected officials to prescribe laws to ensure the effective carrying out of these means.

Now you (and others) have a good issue about the extra questions, yet through our Constitutionally prescribed due process system they have been challenged, reviewed, and decided that they are indeed within the keeping of the charge given by the Constitution. The case law is simple and straightforward here, for once.

Thus the laws passed to ensure the effective carrying out of the Constitution requirement of a decennial census. Our country is not governed solely by the Constitution, rather the Constitution sets the boundaries within which existing laws must act. This is a law from your God placed rulers...it has been reproved through our system...it is law.



Obviously you have not had a lot of time to study Constitutional law. That is sad because as mentioned above the Constitution, even under the most strict interpretation, is a device to frame continued governance. The Census and its few questions are within those bounds.

Now as for misinterpretting Scripture, show me where the Constitution work itself into the New Testament command to submit to those who rule you? Titus 3:1; Romans 13.

Caesar (to use a biblical analogy) has asked for your obedience in this regard, you are commanded to submit to his request and give it to him.



Well the due process system set up by the Constitution to challenge laws passed by Congress in accordance with their obligations according to the Constitution has said these questions are legal and binding for the citizenry. Your objection is moot.



Show me the case law that makes this illegal. Show the wording the Constitution and the US Code that limits the Census to only numbers and explicitly forbids any other action.

Your obligation is thus to obey your God appointed rulers, fill out the form, send it in, and then (if you choose) vote for someone else next term.

Where in the world did you ever come up with the wild idea we have "rulers" in America? You set out to lecture me on civics yet you can't even understand that the law is the higher authority here? Yes it's higher than government it's higher than our public servants who swore an oath to uphold and protect it, not their hold on power or their buddies business interests.

Our "Caezar" is the law and that law, the supreme law is the constitution my friend. Those people who wear the 1,000 dollar suits in Washington DC are our servants. Neither God nor His son Jesus Christ nor even Paul ever commanded any masters to obey their servants. That's just silly. And not only that it's the same bogus twisting of scripture and propaganda used by Goebells and Hitler to get the German citizens to obey unthinkingly and unquestioningly.

I suppose you'd follow orders from Hitler if he claimed to be your "leader" wouldn't you? You'd have too! God said you have to.

The census is for enumeration. Look that word up. It doesn't mean the forced gathering of private information on citizens so the giant corporations can better target consumers or so our unconstitutional socialist government can better distrubute the money it steals.

Yes our government is unconstitutional. Read the constitution. It guarantees each state a REPUBLICAN form of government. Not a socialist form of government. Not a fascist form of government but a REPUBLICAN form of government.

Get a grip and face reality you're in the employ of tyrants don't make a big deal or excuses about it. You should be be proud you work for the global socialists and their undemocratic corporate fascist cronies.

It is the neo-american way after all. Go along to get along. Forget the law of the land and be a good citizen all you gotta do is follow the orders of der leader. In case you're still kinda fuzzy on how our republic actually works or used to work as the case may be. We have a system of governent where the people are the government and we elect representitives to represent us. Not rule over us.

Our public servants disobey God when they disreguard the law or act above and beyond the powers granted to them by that law. Why aren't you out lecturing them about their disobedience? Yeah that's right their's is the hand that feeds you. I get it. They are your rulers because you made them so not God and not the founders of this nation so go obey them and all their lawlessnes and be proud you're a neo-american.

So anyway the answer is no. I'm not being nice to the census takers because they don't know what it is they are actually doing and who they are actually doing it for. And I don't like being lectured by people who don't know what they are doing or even what they're talking about. So, scuuuuuze meeeee!

 

[menageriekeeper]

I'm not being nice to the census takers because they don't know what it is they are actually doing and who they are actually doing it for.

Oh, hmmm, so because you believe that since our government is reaching beyond it authority you have the right to be rude to the person who comes to the door? I wonder how God views that? It seems I remember, wait, let me look it up:

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
.
.
.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

So, where in scripture do you find God allows a Christian to be rude to anyone, much less the poor ignorant Census taker that comes to your door?

Just tell 'em nicely that you aren't participating.

 

[saturneptune]

The Midget was a census worker...

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/berea-ky/TFAPSVO00HE5LUFGJ

Yep, urban legend... http://www.snopes.com/embarrass/mistaken/troll.asp

He was doing the short count.

 

[Trotter]

I was concerned about the Census beforehand. Now that I have been through the training and understand it better I have no problem with it.

The main thing we need is a head count, pure and simple. Be they legal or illegal we need a head count. No one will be arrested if they answer the census as it is completely confidential for 72 years... only the statistics are released.

People really need to participate for the Congressional districts. Not only for those now, but Puerto Rico will be voting soon on whether or not to become a state. If they do then other states will lose seats in the House because of it. Districts that have a lot of people who do not participate will suffer the loss or representation.

All information asked for in the Census is voluntary. We ask if the residence is the primary or a secondary/vacation home and how many live there. We ask if the home is owned free and clear, mortgaged, rented, or belongs to someone else who lets you live there. We ask for the names of the people but do not have to have them. We also ask for the relation between the people in the household and their sex. We ask the age as of April 1, 2010 (Census Day) and birth date. We ask if any are of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin, and then we ask what race you consider each person in the household. We also ask if anyone lives elsewhere for any reason (college dorms, child custody, and such). We double check that no one was forgotten. We ask for a phone number so the Census Bureau can spot check for quality and to make sure we do our job correctly. Finally, we have to mark the address as occupied, vacant, burned out, unable to locate, or whatever.

All we have to have is the head count. Ages would be a nice plus so that they know how many are of voting age. Other than that it doesn't matter a whole lot. It is not a huge deal, but it is important enough that people should help us get it done.

Since I have started second shift I only get to go out on the weekend.

 

[targus]

But of course it's more than just a head count.

It's what's your race?

What's your race?

What's your race?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

The Constitution grants the government the power to do a Census...frankly it commands them.

For the purpose of counting the people, not for the purpose of asking intrusive questions about things the government has no business knowing about.

It isn't your concern to question anymore, the courts have upheld the additional questions as Constitutional. You just need to fill it out and mail it back in.

I told them how many people live in our house. That's all I'm obligated to tell them.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

We ask if the home is owned free and clear, mortgaged, rented, or belongs to someone else who lets you live there.

And what business is that of yours?

We ask for the names of the people but do not have to have them.

What business is that of yours?

We also ask for the relation between the people in the household and their sex.

What business is that of yours?

We ask the age as of April 1, 2010 (Census Day) and birth date. We ask if any are of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin, and then we ask what race you consider each person in the household.

And what business is that of yours?

We also ask if anyone lives elsewhere for any reason (college dorms, child custody, and such).

And what business is that of yours? What if I don't want the government to know where I live? What if I don't think it's any of your business when and where I choose to go?

I find it very amusing that you people are so up in arms about border criminals in Arizona being asked to show proof of residency, but then you have no problem pestering American citizens with such questions.

 

[menageriekeeper]

They want to know about your mortgage/rent so they can better judge how the mortgage mess has affected the population.

They ask relationships to understand the changes that are happening within American families.

They ask ages/b'day to gauge the age of the citizenry

They ask race for the obvious reason of finding out who is a true minority and who isn't. This country has a bad track record concerning minorities.

They ask hispanic descent for the obvious reason of finding out how many we have in this country compared to 10 years ago. (I don't care for this question myself)

We ask about 2nd residences in order to not count people twice. Things like nursing homes, jail and the military got counted earlier, but because our population is mobile some folks who have been counted in a group facility have already returned home by the time us enumerators get there.

I find it very amusing that you people are so up in arms about border criminals in Arizona being asked to show proof of residency, but then you have no problem pestering American citizens with such questions.

LOL, I find this amusing/annoying as well.

Oh, btw, I met you last night. Next time I come out tell me how many American citizens you have living there and not just that you are one. :laugh:

 

[rbell]

They want to know about your mortgage/rent so they can better judge how the mortgage mess has affected the population.

They ask relationships to understand the changes that are happening within American families.

They ask ages/b'day to gauge the age of the citizenry

They ask race for the obvious reason of finding out who is a true minority and who isn't. This country has a bad track record concerning minorities.

They ask hispanic descent for the obvious reason of finding out how many we have in this country compared to 10 years ago. (I don't care for this question myself)

Why stop there?

Why not ask us about our medical history? History of mental illness? What kind of toilets are in your house? Exactly what you do at your job, and what you're paid for it? Your costs of rent & utilities? Do you have emotional difficulties?

Yep...the census just might ask you "those" questions, too. They're also "required."

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/ACS-1(info)(2010) Stateside English_web.pdf

So you see...some of us do object, because we know the government can go from zero to offensively intrusive in about five minutes.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Why not ask us about our medical history? History of mental illness?

Those questoins are up for consideration for the 2020 Census, but only if Obamacare lasts that long.

What kind of toilets are in your house? Exactly what you do at your job, and what you're paid for it?

Those are sooooooo from the 1990 and 2000 Census years! <considers carefully> Although....

The whole job/pay question might be relavant again in 2020 considering we no longer have any manufacturing jobs in the US. Just what is the population doing for a living? (Mississippi John has ideas in his pot thread that might answer that question. )

So you see...some of us do object, because we know the government can go from zero to offensively intrusive in about five minutes.

And I agree, but if they aren't being intrusive at the moment, why are we treating them as though they are? I could come at you with my rolling pin, but at the moment I'm not threatening you and I don't have a history of threatening you with my rolling pin, are you still going to be defensive just because I'm capable of it?

This Census isn't asking anything truely intrusive. Why act as though it is?

 

[rbell]

This Census isn't asking anything truely intrusive. Why act as though it is?

I would consider questions of race intrusive...not in and of themselves, but because of what our government chooses to do with that information.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

They want to know about your mortgage/rent so they can better judge how the mortgage mess has affected the population.

And what business of that is the government's?

They ask relationships to understand the changes that are happening within American families.

And what business is that of the government's?

They ask race for the obvious reason of finding out who is a true minority and who isn't. This country has a bad track record concerning minorities.

And why does the government need to know who is a minority? Either they're Americans or they're not.

They ask hispanic descent for the obvious reason of finding out how many we have in this country compared to 10 years ago.

And what business is that of the government's?

We ask about 2nd residences in order to not count people twice.

And again, why should I have to explain my comings and goings to the government?

For example, we have a couple of vacation homes. What business is it of the government where they are, when I choose to go there and how long I choose to stay?

 

[Trotter]

It is your right to not answer any questions that you so choose, pure and simple. Some people do feel that the questions are too intrusive but that's not a problem. The questions are designed to help the government get valid information for many different areas of inquiry that MK has already touched upon. None of the answers are ever shared within the government; only the statistics generated by the answers are given out for 72 years, after which the information becomes public record and can be viewed by anyone.

As of yesterday I am no longer working for the census. They decided that all Census workers have to put in a minimum of 20 hours a week, but with me working second shift there was no way I could do it without working on Sunday. And so I tendered my resignation and turned in my stuff. I will miss the extra money but I now have my days off back.