MacArthur's Ignorant Misrepresentation of Catholic Teaching

[lori4dogs]

"Maybe you should read what he actually stated instead of making false allegations. Have you read his own writings? Be truthful. Have you? Here is what he says"

The Scandal of the Catholic Priesthood
by John F. MacArthur, Jr.

"That is why in the history of the Catholic church, nothing ever changes. The church absorbs its dissidents. It absorbs its immoral. [?] It absorbs its heretics. It absorbs everybody, and perpetuates the system. The one thing the Catholic church cannot tolerate is any kind of schism. And so it just keeps absorbing the dissidents in the perpetration of the system. And, therefore, it is full of all wretched kinds of beliefs, all levels of immorality and all different kinds of disregard for Catholic law down through the laity."

Not in the Catechism, Trent, Vatican II and the Councils do you find anything about the Catholic Church 'aborbing it's heretics'. There is no Catholic document anywhere that states that heretics and schismatics are 'absorbed' into the Church. They are, in fact, excommunicated. There is much more from his writings, DHK.

From The Scandal of the Catholic Priesthood

MacArthur: "In the eyes of the priesthood there is an inherent uncleanness in marriage and it's a hangover from that sort of Manichaean/Gnostic idea of the evil of the flesh. There's an uncleanness in romantic desire. There's an uncleanness in normal love. There's something shameful in that. And the desire for procreation is somehow the enemy of spiritual devotion."

I'm sure he can produce the Catholic documentation that supports this lie. Not!

 

[Trotter]

Of course no one responded, ReformedBaptist. You pretty much nailed it down.

I find it funny that Lori is upset about Mac cracking on the RCC. If he is so wrong, why don't you offer to debate him on it? MacArthur is an extremely intelligent guy and he takes pains to be as accurate as possible... I am sure he would appreciate you letting him know that he was wrong.

I also see pergutory as a second chance because the bible tells of only two destinations for the dead... with Christ or in hell. There is no middle ground, no place of working out one's past. That question is settled the moment the last breath leaves the body and it was answered by a simple question... did that person accept Jesus Christ as His personal Savior? What the church says, what the pope says, what anyone says means nothing, only that one question.

 

[lori4dogs]

Arguing that MacArthur said this or didn't say that or whatever seems absurd to me. Lori, if you have a beef with Mr. MacArthur, then call him and face him head on.

If you want to discuss the doctrines of your church in light of the Scripture then let's discuss those.

I noticed no one responded to my previous post.

Seems so many on this board hold MacArthur in such high esteem and quote him so often. Links to his anti-Catholic videos have been posted here as some kind of rebuff of Catholic doctrine. Seems to me he has a lot to say of something he knows little about or is intentionally deceptive.

 

[lori4dogs]

Of course no one responded, ReformedBaptist. You pretty much nailed it down.

I find it funny that Lori is upset about Mac cracking on the RCC. If he is so wrong, why don't you offer to debate him on it? MacArthur is an extremely intelligent guy and he takes pains to be as accurate as possible... I am sure he would appreciate you letting him know that he was wrong.

I also see pergutory as a second chance because the bible tells of only two destinations for the dead... with Christ or in hell. There is no middle ground, no place of working out one's past. That question is settled the moment the last breath leaves the body and it was answered by a simple question... did that person accept Jesus Christ as His personal Savior? What the church says, what the pope says, what anyone says means nothing, only that one question.

I know DHK won't go near a Catholic apologetic page. All Catholic LIES! But you might take a look at the link I provided in the OP. The links on that page are directly to his writings so there is no doubt as to whether he actually said these things or not.

You are right, we either finally end up with Christ or in Hell. No debate from me there. Purgatory is NOT a second chance and the Church has never taught that it is.

 

[DHK]

Seems so many on this board hold MacArthur in such high esteem and quote him so often. Links to his anti-Catholic videos have been posted here as some kind of rebuff of Catholic doctrine. Seems to me he has a lot to say of something he knows little about or is intentionally deceptive.

You hold him in very high esteem. If you didn't, you wouldn't quote him so much.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Seems so many on this board hold MacArthur in such high esteem and quote him so often. Links to his anti-Catholic videos have been posted here as some kind of rebuff of Catholic doctrine. Seems to me he has a lot to say of something he knows little about or is intentionally deceptive.

Then you need to debate that with those using MacArthur. Otherwise this just looks like childish whining.

 

[DHK]

I know DHK won't go near a Catholic apologetic page. All Catholic LIES!

No, you are right on that point; instead I go right to the source itself.
Have you done the same? Have you gone to the source itself?
Have you gone to his web page, and looked at the Catholic articles that he has written to see if they are credible or not. Or do you just believe your Catholic cronies that he is lying?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I know DHK won't go near a Catholic apologetic page. All Catholic LIES! But you might take a look at the link I provided in the OP. The links on that page are directly to his writings so there is no doubt as to whether he actually said these things or not.

You are right, we either finally end up with Christ or in Hell. No debate from me there. Purgatory is NOT a second chance and the Church has never taught that it is.

Nor has Christ or His Apostles ever taught the concept of a purgatory that your church teaches. Your going to reject this of course, because even though not a word of purgatory is mentioned in Scripture, your church teaches you that it can develop doctrine over time, extrapolate backwards, and insert it as an "interpretation" of the Scripture and claim "the church" taught it all along.

Those who are born of God don't buy into that bait and switch Lori.

 

[lori4dogs]

No, you are right on that point; instead I go right to the source itself.
Have you done the same? Have you gone to the source itself?
Have you gone to his web page, and looked at the Catholic articles that he has written to see if they are credible or not. Or do you just believe your Catholic cronies that he is lying?

I have gone to his documents and writings and have seen what he actually wrote. My Catholic 'cronies' are telling the truth.

BTW, I really don't believe he is intentionally lying but is, in fact, misrepresenting through ignorance what the Catholic Church teaches. Others, like Jack Chick Publications, publish lies.

 

[lori4dogs]

"Those who are born of God don't buy into that bait and switch Lori."

In other words, I'm not a 'true' Christian, right?

 

[DHK]

"Maybe you should read what he actually stated instead of making false allegations. Have you read his own writings? Be truthful. Have you? Here is what he says"

The Scandal of the Catholic Priesthood
by John F. MacArthur, Jr.

"That is why in the history of the Catholic church, nothing ever changes. The church absorbs its dissidents. It absorbs its immoral. [?] It absorbs its heretics. It absorbs everybody, and perpetuates the system. The one thing the Catholic church cannot tolerate is any kind of schism. And so it just keeps absorbing the dissidents in the perpetration of the system. And, therefore, it is full of all wretched kinds of beliefs, all levels of immorality and all different kinds of disregard for Catholic law down through the laity."

The statement is true. As one observer put it: "you can be a Catholic and anything else under the sun (as long as you confess it before mass)."
As a missionary to nations in other parts of the world I see how the RCC operates. They are a chameleon. They fit in and absorb the culture even if the culture is sinful. They will absorb idolatry as it fits their system. They have a very syncrestic religion. They can take parts of Hinduism and adopt it, or parts of Islam and adopt that. Wherever they are they can adopt by taking parts of the religion of the nation they are in and adapting to it and even adopting it as part of their own. In one nation where sacrifice of animals was the norm, the RCC began to sacrifice animals to a statue of Mary. I have pictures. It is a syncrestic religion.

Not in the Catechism, Trent, Vatican II and the Councils do you find anything about the Catholic Church 'aborbing it's heretics'. There is no Catholic document anywhere that states that heretics and schismatics are 'absorbed' into the Church. They are, in fact, excommunicated. There is much more from his writings, DHK.

He is so right on this. Don't you follow the news? They harbor criminals like pedophiles, and shift them from one parish to another that they may avoid prosecution. Furthermore do you know how many schismatics are within the Catholic Church. You admitted as much on another thread. There are plenty of divisions within the RCC, and you know it. It would be heresy to admit Mary into the "trinity" and yet there are some that would push to do that. Yes, it tolerates heretics. Bishop goes up against bishop embarrassing the pope, who then has to come out and make a statement: "this is not the official position of the church." Do you know how many times I have heard that statement in the past few months?

From The Scandal of the Catholic Priesthood

MacArthur: "In the eyes of the priesthood there is an inherent uncleanness in marriage and it's a hangover from that sort of Manichaean/Gnostic idea of the evil of the flesh.

And the Bible says that those that forbid marriage--that is a doctrine of demons. It leads to pedophilia, homosexuality, and immorality of all sorts, which has been verified. He is not wrong here.

There's an uncleanness in romantic desire. There's an uncleanness in normal love. There's something shameful in that. And the desire for procreation is somehow the enemy of spiritual devotion."

He is right when speaking of the celibacy of the priesthood. The proof is the world-wide scandals that have resulted because of it.

I'm sure he can produce the Catholic documentation that supports this lie. Not!

I am sure he can. There is plenty of research out there.

 

[lori4dogs]

He is right when he speaks of the celibacy of the priesthood?

http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?id=442

 

[DHK]

He is right when he speaks of the celibacy of the priesthood?

http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?id=442

Why do you think his statistics are accurate?
4%? It could be 40% and you wouldn't know it would you?

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Ephesians 5:11-12 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
--Those things were and are done "in secret," and are continually covered up. The statistic refers only to the ones that are "caught," which is rather low I suspect.

 

[Jedi Knight]

It is kind of like the OSAS problem - I find a lot of people who reject the man-made tradition of OSAS - tend to paint all OSAS-believers as being those that reject the perseverance of the saints (a path Zenas took on this board recently).

Clearly 3 and 5 point Calvinists hold strictly to the Perseverance of the saints teaching as well as OSAS - it is only the 4-point Calvinists that reject Perseverance and use that to come up with a more "bulletproof OSAS". (Though still wrong of course)

in Christ,

Bob

Jumped the topic like Evel Knievel. Eternal Security is not the topic....and is not a man-made doctrine like your teaching.

 

[Whowillgo]

"Those who are born of God don't buy into that bait and switch Lori."

In other words, I'm not a 'true' Christian, right?

Lori, I can see you have been offended by what you perceive as MacArthur's teaching on the RCC. I am sure he has made some bad statements in his desire to bring truth out. I enjoy MacArthur but I do not believe he represents the majority of Baptists. Sadly perception equals reality to most and we all tend to let our perceptions enter into our teaching. That is one vital reason that God demands man to teach from His word not from man's revelations.

I would in Christian love ask you to take a moment and see what matters most. If the RCC is correct in your eyes then anything MacArthur teaches should not matter, if they are not correct then you need to look for the truth.

As far as being a true Christian that is a personal decision between you and our Lord.

 

[lori4dogs]

I agree with you that 'perception equals reality to most'. I tend to believe that MacArthur really thinks he understands the Catholic Church and makes false statements about it's teaching out of ignorance and not intentional deception. This is not always the case with Protestants though.

As I have pointed out several times on this board, there are Protestant publishers that fabricate stories about the Catholic Church. For them the end justifies the means. Why is it necessary to publish lies in order to pursuade people to turn their backs on their faith or other people from embracing it?

Chick Publications is widely used by many Protestant churches as an evangelistic tool and has published a series of stories based on a man who claims he was once a Jesuit priest. When you read any of his stories it becomes blatantly obvious to most lay Catholics that this man was never an ordained priest anywhere. Countless errors in Catholic teaching coupled with the fact that Christianity Today did an investigation into the background of this so called 'Jesuit priest' and found him to be a liar and a fraud. Has Chick Publications pulled this series of booklets. No! They continue to claim they are publishing 'the truth'.

Here is website, one fresh out of the 'fruitcake zone' that has similar types of nonsense:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/

and the page with extensive links to pages of anti-Catholic nonsense:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/index.htm#rc


My point is this. If you are going to protest Catholic teaching do it accurately and honestly and not out of ignorance.

 

[Darrell C]

Hello to All,

This is from another forum, posted by a Catholic.

The thread is called the plan to destroy the Catholic Church.


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He (the poster) seems to be very well versed in Catholic Doctrine.

For the Catholics here, I would ask, "Do you agree with this presentation?"

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Hello again,

Well, that worked out well.

If somebody could explain to me (a self-proclaimed computer idiot) how to copy the videos, maybe I could actually put it in the post.

God bless.

 

[DHK]

Chick Publications is widely used by many Protestant churches as an evangelistic tool and has published a series of stories based on a man who claims he was once a Jesuit priest.

You are acting like a troll here.
You persistently bring up Jack Chick and his publications on this board, when poster after poster tells you that they don't use his materials. Look up the definition of a troll, and see if it fits in this case. This continued false allegation, after many here have told you that we don't use Chick Publications is totally unwarranted.

 

[lori4dogs]

Well, that worked out well.

If somebody could explain to me (a self-proclaimed computer idiot) how to copy the videos, maybe I could actually put it in the post.

God bless.

I haven't figured that out either.