Conversion-Immersion

[adisciplinedlearner]

Where did Lori use harsh language against other members of this board? Just wondering.

 

[DHK]

Where did Lori use harsh language against other members of this board? Just wondering.

Read her recent posts carefully.
Is it acceptable to call other evangelicals "bigots"?

 

[Dr. Walter]

What is Regeneration?

Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

The best way to define what is regeneration is to define what it is to be unregenerate. Paul does this in the text above as he decribes those who are "alienated from the LIFE of God."

What alienates them from the life of God?

1. "through the ignorance that is in them"
2. "because of the blindness of their heart"
3. "having their understanding darkened"

Regeneration is reversing this internal state or condition of their understanding and heart.

Paul further describes the state of the unregenerate condition of the understanding or mindset:

"for the carnal mind is at ENMITY with God and is NOT SUBJECT to the law of God and neither indeed CAN BE. So they that are in the flesh cannot please God." - Rom. 8:7-8

Paul further describes the state of the unregenerate condition of the understanding or mindset:

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The unregenerate condition has to to with the understanding of the mind and the condition of the heart. Water cannot reverse this internal condition!! How would baptism reverse this internal darkness, enmity towards God, refusal to submit to the law or revealed will of God?

Would not this internal state have to be reversed before a person would even be willing to submit to baptism???? If the reversal of this inward state of mind and heart occured in baptism would not that be baptismal regeneration???

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Read her recent posts carefully.
Is it acceptable to call other evangelicals "bigots"?

I suppose she means some Presbyterians and other evangelicals are sometimes guilty of anti-Catholic bias or bigotry when they automatically oppose a belief and/or a practice just because it is taught by the RCC. They sometimes have a knee-jerk reaction against Catholic-sounding ideas.

Lori seems to come across to me pretty mildly, but I have not read everything she has posted on this board. I am not in agreement with her apparent Roman Catholicism, but I am willing to listen to and learn from her wherever possible as a fellow human.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I suppose she means some Presbyterians and other evangelicals are sometimes guilty of anti-Catholic bias or bigotry when they automatically oppose a belief and/or a practice just because it is taught by the RCC. They sometimes have a knee-jerk reaction against Catholic-sounding ideas.

Lori seems to come across to me pretty mildly, but I have not read everything she has posted on this board. I am not in agreement with her apparent Roman Catholicism, but I am willing to listen to and learn from her wherever possible as a fellow human.

As smooth as oil and slippery as a snake

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

As smooth as oil and slippery as a snake

Am I supposed to treat Lori with contempt and act superior to her because she is one of those "dirty Catholics"?

 

[Dr. Walter]

Am I supposed to treat Lori with contempt and act superior to her because she is one of those "dirty Catholics"?

Didn't have Lori in mind at all nor how you treat her one way or the other.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Again, what would true repentance require from the heart and mind of a person BEFORE baptism that would not require any change in the described condition in Ephesians 4:18 until baptism?

Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

The best way to define what is regeneration is to define what it is to be unregenerate. Paul does this in the text above as he decribes those who are "alienated from the LIFE of God."

What alienates them from the life of God?

1. "through the ignorance that is in them"
2. "because of the blindness of their heart"
3. "having their understanding darkened"

Regeneration is reversing this internal state or condition of their understanding and heart.

Paul further describes the state of the unregenerate condition of the understanding or mindset:

"for the carnal mind is at ENMITY with God and is NOT SUBJECT to the law of God and neither indeed CAN BE. So they that are in the flesh cannot please God." - Rom. 8:7-8

Paul further describes the state of the unregenerate condition of the understanding or mindset:

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The unregenerate condition has to to with the understanding of the mind and the condition of the heart. Water cannot reverse this internal condition!! How would baptism reverse this internal darkness, enmity towards God, refusal to submit to the law or revealed will of God?

Would not this internal state have to be reversed before a person would even be willing to submit to baptism???? If the reversal of this inward state of mind and heart occured in baptism would not that be baptismal regeneration???

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Conversion to Christ is one consistent whole. Repentance and faith are expressed in baptism.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Conversion to Christ is one consistent whole. Repentance and faith are expressed in baptism.

So you baptize unrepentant and unbelieving CANDIDATES for baptism? Why then did John require "fruits meet for repentance" BEFORE baptizing - Mt. 3:6-8

 

[DHK]

Conversion to Christ is one consistent whole. Repentance and faith are expressed in baptism.

Tell me plainly, and not with an "I don't know answer," for I will give you the plain facts.

I trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior. I knew at that time that I was born again and my sins were forgiven. I had put my faith in Christ. I was justified by faith and had peace with God.

Two years later I was baptized.

Now in the intervening years, was I saved or not?

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Tell me plainly, and not with an "I don't know answer," for I will give you the plain facts.

I trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior. I knew at that time that I was born again and my sins were forgiven. I had put my faith in Christ. I was justified by faith and had peace with God.

Two years later I was baptized.

Now in the intervening years, was I saved or not?

Brother DHK, All I can tell you is that I am convinced you became a New Covenant Christian when you expressed your repentance and faith in baptism. This is when you were baptized into union with Christ, into union with His death, burial, and resurrection, and into union with His one body. I base this belief on my understanding of the New Testament.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Baptists all over the world are coming to the realization that in New Testament times, initial conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ included repentance, faith, and the confession of Christ in baptism. I call this New Testament practice conversion-immersion, and I am convinced that this is how people became Christians during the New Testament era. I am further convinced that this is how people become Christians today.

Thats completly false, and you are proclaiming a false gospel.

We are justified before God, and given the gift of eternal life, through faith in Christ ALONE.

The scriptures are clear regarding that.

The scriptures are equally clear that what you are proclaiming a gospel that will not save.

You need to stop heeding the words of men and turn the the scriptures alone as your source for truth.

This is a serious matter.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Brother DHK, All I can tell you is that I am convinced you became a New Covenant Christian when you expressed your repentance and faith in baptism. This is when you were baptized into union with Christ, into union with His death, burial, and resurrection, and into union with His one body. I base this belief on my understanding of the New Testament.

If anyone cannot see clearly that you do not know what you are talking about they are as blind as you are. You have declared DKH as a liar in his profession for two years and lost and your candidates for baptism are yet unrepentant and unbelievers. Your whole ecclesiology and soteriology fall together with your view of regeneration.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Brother Aline in Christ, You are entitled to your own conviction, but I do not agree with what you have said. I think you are preaching an incomplete gospel.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

If anyone cannot see clearly that you do not know what you are talking about they are as blind as you are. You have declared DKH as a liar in his profession for two years and lost and your candidates for baptism are yet unrepentant and unbelievers. Your whole ecclesiology and soteriology fall together with your view of regeneration.

I did not call Brother DKH a liar at all. I simply shared with him my understanding of his religious experience based upon my take on the New Testament. He does not have to agree with me.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I did not call Brother DKH a liar at all. I simply shared with him my understanding of his religious experience based upon my take on the New Testament. He does not have to agree with me.

"slick as oil and slippery as a snake" - Isn't everything you believe based upon your "understanding" of the scriptures????Your understanding of the scriptures is a frank denial in your opinion that anyone giving his testimony could be genuinely saved before baptism. Thus your "understanding" is a frank declaration that you believe he could not have been a true born again child of God in those two years prior to baptism. It is not merely your "understanding" but your avowed doctrine that all such unbaptized persons cannot be regenerate, justified or saved.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Again, do your candidates for baptism have any change of mind and heart from what is described in Ephesians 4:18 as the unregenerate condition BEFORE you baptize them? So does Romans 10:10 occur in baptism? If so, then how do YOU know who is to baptize?

Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

The best way to define what is regeneration is to define what it is to be unregenerate. Paul does this in the text above as he decribes those who are "alienated from the LIFE of God."

What alienates them from the life of God?

1. "through the ignorance that is in them"
2. "because of the blindness of their heart"
3. "having their understanding darkened"

Regeneration is reversing this internal state or condition of their understanding and heart.

Paul further describes the state of the unregenerate condition of the understanding or mindset:

"for the carnal mind is at ENMITY with God and is NOT SUBJECT to the law of God and neither indeed CAN BE. So they that are in the flesh cannot please God." - Rom. 8:7-8

Paul further describes the state of the unregenerate condition of the understanding or mindset:

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The unregenerate condition has to to with the understanding of the mind and the condition of the heart. Water cannot reverse this internal condition!! How would baptism reverse this internal darkness, enmity towards God, refusal to submit to the law or revealed will of God?

Would not this internal state have to be reversed before a person would even be willing to submit to baptism???? If the reversal of this inward state of mind and heart occured in baptism would not that be baptismal regeneration???

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

"slick as oil and slippery as a snake" - Isn't everything you believe based upon your "understanding" of the scriptures????Your understanding of the scriptures is a frank denial in your opinion that anyone giving his testimony could be genuinely saved before baptism. Thus your "understanding" is a frank declaration that you believe he could not have been a true born again child of God in those two years prior to baptism. It is not merely your "understanding" but your avowed doctrine that all such unbaptized persons cannot be regenerate, justified or saved.

Of course, my religious beliefs are based upon my study and understanding of the Scriptures. So are yours.

 

[Zenas]

Tell me plainly, and not with an "I don't know answer," for I will give you the plain facts.

I trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior. I knew at that time that I was born again and my sins were forgiven. I had put my faith in Christ. I was justified by faith and had peace with God.

Two years later I was baptized.

Now in the intervening years, was I saved or not?

Bad example, DHK. You had already been baptized some 22 years earlier so of course you were saved. The second "two years later" time was of no effect other than as a testimony.