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fear of the word "Baptist"

Ruiz

New Member
If I were to plant a church, I would not include the name "Baptist" in the name. Here is my rationale

1. It means nothing! There are Reformed Baptists, IFBers, Liberal Baptists, Free-will Baptists. Having the word "Baptist" means very little.

2. There is no advantage to having the name Baptist in the name. There are too many stereotypes you have to battle. I would rather set my own views.

3. A true Baptist is known by doctrine, not by merely a broad label.

Thus, I would not include the name Baptist in my church name.
 

Ruiz

New Member
Well, let's see if we can create an interesting scenario. You're Southern Baptist, for purposes of discussion.

Let's say you eliminate the word Baptist from your church sign, as a marketing strategy.

Do you also eliminate the Baptist Hymnal from your pews?

The last church I Pastored, we used the Trinity Hymnal.

Do you also quit using Lifeway Sunday School literature?

In my Southern Baptist Church I pastored, I wanted to jettison Lifeway from our church. I used a variety of literature from a variety of sources. Some in our church wished to keep the literature, but I encouraged people to find other literature. This church still had "Baptist" in the name. I am not a fan of Lifeway Literature.

Do you junk your support of the
Cooperative Program?

No, but I also was never a fan of exclusively using the Cooperative Program. I supported other mission endeavors from other sources.

Do you quit your ties to the local Baptist Association, your state Baptist Convention and the SBC?

No, but I do not exclusively have ties with them. I had ties with other organizations too. Granted, my associations with the Associations, State Convention, and National were all much more limited than other associations I had with other people. I had associations with non-Baptists and Baptists.

If someone asks, do you say you're not Baptist, but are baptistic?

I clarify according to my doctrinal statement saying that I hold to the 1689 LBC or that I am a Reformed Baptist. I rarely say that I am just a "Baptist." I met Baptists who deny the trinity, I would not want to be associated with them. Instead of muddy the waters with a vague word like "Baptist", I would rather be specific in what I do believe.

If you stop calling your church Baptist, but keep the rest of those ties in place, what happens when that new member who joined your fellowship finds out you're really Baptist in everything but name only? Is going to think you were less than honest?

I would not let someone join until they went through a new members class in which we explained what we believed and who we are. If someone would join my church without knowing, it was not because we "hid" our associations. We also stated that while we support Southern Baptist projects, we were supported many other organizations. Yet, just having "Baptist" on a sign does not tell them you are Southern Baptist, it tells them you are "Baptist". It does not tell them if you believe the Bible, or if you are charismatic. For some reason Southern Baptists in the South seem to point that since people have "Baptist" in their name then they must be SBC. I find that narrow-minded. Rather, just calling yourself a Baptist does not clarify anything.

Seems to me that you drop Baptist, you have to drop the other stuff, or you're getting people in the door under false pretenses.

No, if you have the word "Baptist" or not, you have to tell people what you really believe and why you believe it. You also have to tell people what your church is about. All Baptist seems to tell people, as Spurgeon noted, is that you believe in immersion. I would rather tell people what I believe and let them know it first hand, rather than assume they know it by what the sign says.

If you think your sign tells people what you stand for, then you are making a grave error in your assumptions.
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
Here's the church Dr. Bob is referencing:laugh:

How did you get that "baptist" sign up there? I know the largest Baptist church in England did not have "Baptist" in the name and wonder if someone is playing games with that sign. Hmmmm.

God will get you, Jerome . .

Or if Peter Masters is really that warped. ;)
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
No, if you have the word "Baptist" or not, you have to tell people what you really believe and why you believe it. You also have to tell people what your church is about. All Baptist seems to tell people, as Spurgeon noted, is that you believe in immersion. I would rather tell people what I believe and let them know it first hand, rather than assume they know it by what the sign says.

I'm not sure what people think when they see "Baptist" any more.

We have 2 American Baptists that wouldn't know the Gospel if they were hit over the head with it. One asked me to come today for the installation of their new pastor. SHE is a social worker, no theological training, but from all reports a nice person. I declined to participate.

We have 2 hylesish cult Baptists (think sermons worshiping the KJV and damning slacks). In the name of Hyles, Ruckman and Lester Roloff, Amen.

We've had 2 Regular Baptist churches but both split and folded.

We've had 3 Conservative Baptist, but all have left the association and are historic independent Baptist today. I worked 5 years with one of them to revive it to self-supporting, etc. And one is my "home" or "sending" church for our mission work.

We've had 13 but now 11 Southern Baptist, none of which is on the conservative end of the SBC, but 6 are good churches. None are in the liberal break off of the SBC.

We have 2 Black Baptist churches (National Convention) that do their black thing in worship, activities, MLK marches, etc

And we have 1 Reformed Baptist church (us) that keeps having people move out of town as we stuggle for long-term growth.

So when people say "What kind of Baptist?" there is a vitual smorgasboord in our small city (under 50,000)
 

Ruiz

New Member
I'm not sure what people think when they see "Baptist" any more.

We have 2 American Baptists that wouldn't know the Gospel if they were hit over the head with it. One asked me to come today for the installation of their new pastor. SHE is a social worker, no theological training, but from all reports a nice person. I declined to participate.

We have 2 hylesish cult Baptists (think sermons worshiping the KJV and damning slacks). In the name of Hyles, Ruckman and Lester Roloff, Amen.

We've had 2 Regular Baptist churches but both split and folded.

We've had 3 Conservative Baptist, but all have left the association and are historic independent Baptist today. I worked 5 years with one of them to revive it to self-supporting, etc. And one is my "home" or "sending" church for our mission work.

We've had 13 but now 11 Southern Baptist, none of which is on the conservative end of the SBC, but 6 are good churches. None are in the liberal break off of the SBC.

We have 2 Black Baptist churches (National Convention) that do their black thing in worship, activities, MLK marches, etc

And we have 1 Reformed Baptist church (us) that keeps having people move out of town as we stuggle for long-term growth.

So when people say "What kind of Baptist?" there is a vitual smorgasboord in our small city (under 50,000)

Bob,

I agree. In my area there are three types of churches: Liberal, Charismatic, legalistic. There are some exceptions but when I mention "Baptist" in our town, it could be everything from an American Baptist who believes homosexuality is okay, to a Southern Baptist who thinks Rick Warren is king, to an IFBer who thinks my alma mater (Liberty University) is a liberal University (I disagree with Liberty on many issues, but they are not liberal).

I think it is legalistic by some in their litmus test of using "Baptist" in the name. Rather, we should examine their doctrine, we should not examine their sign.
 

SolaSaint

Well-Known Member
You know what, I think I am gonna vent for a few minutes. I am a member of an independent BAPTIST church. When I departed Oneness Pentecostalism, I searched for a good reformed Baptist fellowship. In a city the size of Houston, I am traveling 25 miles one way to a church that preaches expositionally and whose hermeneutics are biblical. Let me reiterate, I am attending a BAPTIST church.

I find these seeker sensative churches are more concerned about becoming more appealing to the carnally minded man than to the extreme scandal of the Gospel message. We should be seeker sensative, but the true seeker is Jesus Christ and we should be sensative to Him. This is why I am where I am, and I am not ashamed to be called Baptist.

OK... rant over.

Amen William, Nice post:wavey:
 

TomVols

New Member
I'd rather have Baptist in my doctrine and off the door than on the door and not in the doctrine (most Baptist churches today).
 

SolaSaint

Well-Known Member
I'd rather have Baptist in my doctrine and off the door than on the door and not in the doctrine (most Baptist churches today).

I agree Tom!

My Op was concerned with churches running from the name "baptist" in favor of attracting seekers. I feel the church needs to equip and encourage the saints to go out and bring in the lost and not try to attract unbelievers with gimmicks and removing the name baptist or crosses and hymnals from the pews, oops I meant stackable chairs.

Yes the word baptist has been an ugly word to many outside of the denominations, but will getting rid of a name change anything? Why not try and change what people see as the witness of the baptists churches?
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
When you see a church associated with the SBC you know what you're getting, and to me it means something positive.
Don't always be so sure. The issue is not the name on the shingle or how many programs they have, but who is living for Jesus Christ because of their life.
 
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pinoybaptist

Active Member
Site Supporter
you know what, i think i am gonna vent for a few minutes. I am a member of an independent baptist church. When i departed oneness pentecostalism, i searched for a good reformed baptist fellowship. In a city the size of houston, i am traveling 25 miles one way to a church that preaches expositionally and whose hermeneutics are biblical. Let me reiterate, i am attending a baptist church.

I find these seeker sensative churches are more concerned about becoming more appealing to the carnally minded man than to the extreme scandal of the gospel message. We should be seeker sensative, but the true seeker is jesus christ and we should be sensative to him. This is why i am where i am, and i am not ashamed to be called baptist.

Ok... Rant over.

way to go, yo !!
 

Ruiz

New Member
who said that if you change your name you are seeker sensitive? I see a growing number of churches who are anti-seeker sensitive who also reject the Baptist name. Would Charles Spurgeon or John MacArthur be considered seeker sensitive? I know a church plant in our area where the name "Baptist" is not used. They, too, are not seeker sensitive. They just don't like the baggage of the label "Baptist."
 

Crabtownboy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We have not dropped the name Baptist from our sign. We have talked about it. Why? Because in our area many see the word Baptist and think bigots, narrow mindedness, intolerance and the taking of ridiculous stances on issues that are not considered as religious issues by most of the general population. Why? Primarily because of the news that has come out of SBC conventions and pronouncements by those perceived at SBC leaders.

Will we drop the name? I doubt we will.
 
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gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
I did not have a clue what a Baptist was except that I had a friend whose dad was a Baptist pastor and I seldom ever heard anything good from him. When we were in our senior year and talking about what we wanted to do and where we we decided to go to college I asked him if he planned to be a pastor. His immediate response was one of disdain for being a pastor. That was my only introduction to Baptist and would not go to a Baptist church anywhere until I took a job in Texas. Until I had a positive expereince with Baptists it had always been a negative one in my mind.

I grew up in a nominal religious home and many times heard about the rants from Baptists when my parents were growing up. I see that it has not done any good to bring them closer to God and knowing Christ personally.
 
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NiteShift

New Member
Don't always be so sure. The issue is not the name on the shingle or how many programs they have, but who is living for Jesus Christ because of their life.

Yes well that is true of any church, and you can only find out those things by attending for awhile. But at least with SBC the preacher has probably been to Southern Seminary, you know what type of missions they support (no Heifer International, no pro-choice rallies), that kind of thing. And you might even get to hear traditional hymns now and then if you're lucky.
 

nodak

Active Member
Site Supporter
It isn't just a baptist thing.

At least not in the American southwest.

Nazarene churches "refocus" and take the name Nazarene off the sign.

Methodist churches "refresh" and take the name Methodist off the sign.

Assembly of God churches are doing it. So are the Presbyterians.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Yes well that is true of any church, and you can only find out those things by attending for awhile. But at least with SBC the preacher has probably been to Southern Seminary, you know what type of missions they support (no Heifer International, no pro-choice rallies), that kind of thing. And you might even get to hear traditional hymns now and then if you're lucky.
If I remember right in the past year the SBC said that less than 1/2 of the pastors have been to seminary. The number is going down too. The push now is for pastors to be bivocational.
 

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
... The number is going down too. The push now is for pastors to be bivocational.

I don't know where you are getting that information. By means of seminary education going online, the push is to get training into the hands of more and more non-seminary trained pastors.
 

jcgordon

New Member
Many churches in our rural area do a great job of getting people through the doors, they have cute advertising campaigns, a rock concert every Sunday, they entertain the kids and play lots of games. In fact the previous pastor for one of these churches went out west and at his new church wanted to do Beer & Bibles, for a study group at a bar. The War of Truth is what we are fighting in these days.

I could care less what the name on the building is if the church teaches and preaches the Bible, and only the Bible. For me this is a specific Bible but that is another post for another day. Secondly, the church has to be focused on salvation. This two tiered approach is what each and every church should be, in my opinion.

I have attended many churches and in our area only the Independent Baptist Church provides this approach. Many can claim they do but their preaching does not when compared with Gods word, meet the test.

I am not suprised that many churches don't preach the Bible any longer, the Bible tells us: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Just my two cents. Good to be on the board.
 
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SolaSaint

Well-Known Member
who said that if you change your name you are seeker sensitive? I see a growing number of churches who are anti-seeker sensitive who also reject the Baptist name. Would Charles Spurgeon or John MacArthur be considered seeker sensitive? I know a church plant in our area where the name "Baptist" is not used. They, too, are not seeker sensitive. They just don't like the baggage of the label "Baptist."

I'm not talking about new churches, and churches don't change names unless they are trying to attract those repulsed by the name baptist,..IMO
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Cross Pointe Church Norman OK

http://www.crosspointe.tv/

Services Sunday Morning:
8:30 - Vintage (Traditional)
9:45-11:00 - Modern
11:00 - Overdrive!

Moved out to the edge of town with lots of parking spaces from the "first courthouse" district of a city of 100,000. The pastor is the same (he still preaches all three services). Downtown the church was called Free Will Baptist Church of Norman Okahoma.

A search of 'Baptist' on an Adobe news-letter indicates no word 'Baptist" used. The old plant is now occupied by "Southern Oklahoma Chinese Baptist Church" (which used to meet in the building of the church to which I belong). The change was good: from about 250 members to 5,500!

The headquarters and college of the Free Will Baptist Denomination is located in the same town -- well, in the no-man's land between our town and the town north of us.
 
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