The Blood of Christ

[HankD]

Thanks Hank, I saved that to file.

Yes, there is power in the blood...

One of my all time favorite hymns:

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/t/h/therepow.htm

HankD

 

[dwmoeller1]

Good morning dwmoeller1

I said........

Then you said........

Here is what the Bible says about human blood........
1 Corinthians 15:50
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

Please explain in more detail how you go from that verse to your particular conclusion.

One possible objection that comes to mind right away is that, if the verse indicates the unholiness of human blood then it would seem to equally indicate the unholiness of human flesh as well. Yet, we know that Christ was resurrected in the flesh (Luke 24:39) and returned to heaven in that form (Luke 24:51). So if, by I Cor 15:50 blood is corrupt and thus cannot be taken into the Holy place in heaven, then by the same verse, neither can flesh. Yet Christ is flesh and, presumably (I still am curious where you get this idea of the Holy place in heaven or an altar there), goes into the Holy place in heaven, then your reasoning appears to create a clear contradiction.

Please unravel this apparent contradition for me...and explain where you get this idea of a Holy place and altar in heaven.

 

[HankD]

Please explain in more detail how you go from that verse to your particular conclusion.

One possible objection that comes to mind right away is that, if the verse indicates the unholiness of human blood then it would seem to equally indicate the unholiness of human flesh as well. Yet, we know that Christ was resurrected in the flesh (Luke 24:39) and returned to heaven in that form (Luke 24:51). So if, by I Cor 15:50 blood is corrupt and thus cannot be taken into the Holy place in heaven, then by the same verse, neither can flesh. Yet Christ is flesh and, presumably (I still am curious where you get this idea of the Holy place in heaven or an altar there), goes into the Holy place in heaven, then your reasoning appears to create a clear contradiction.

Please unravel this apparent contradition for me...and explain where you get this idea of a Holy place and altar in heaven.

Greetings dwmoeller

The passage should include some important context as
the entire chapter is dealing with the resurrection and the resurrected body.

“Flesh and blood” or a person in the state of mortality (still subject to death) cannot enter heaven.

They must be changed or translated and receive an immortal incorruptible body whose life force is the Spirit of God and not oxygenated blood.

1 Corinthians 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

As to the blood of Christ

Hebrews 9
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

HankD

 

[webdog]

Like you say, its unanswerable. Not enough details given.

Whats more interesting to me is why don't Enoch and Elijah die since they inherited death the same as we

I don't think Enoch and Elijah died in the sense we know death...but their flesh was shed nonetheless. I guess maybe "death lite"?

 

[webdog]

We would all agree that the shed blood of Jesus Christ is very important.

Hebrews 9:22 "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."

The was something mentioned in another thread about the blood of Christ. Was there anything different about the physical properties of Jesus' blood compared to the rest of our blood? Did Jesus have any special divine blood or did Jesus have human blood?


So, here we go. Fire away. (in a nice way though!)

If you ask the catholics, maybe they would say it was composed of fermented grapes?

 

[Winman]

Jesus had normal blood just like us.

I know He had to die because it was God's plan, but for the sake of asking stupid questions , Jesus wouldn't have been under the curse of death would He? He did not inherit it the way that we have.

Are you speaking of physical death, or spiritual death? It is true that we all shall die a physical death. God cursed the ground, we are made of the ground. Death in this sense passed upon all creation, the entire universe grows old, wears out and dies. Jesus grew older physically just like us. He got hungry, felt pain, the same as us.

But spiritual death is different. The scriptures do not teach we inherit spiritual death, they teach we are dead in trespasses and sins.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[stilllearning]

Hello dwmoeller1

You asked........

“Please explain in more detail how you go from that verse to your particular conclusion.”

HankD beat me to it, but I was going to say that the context of this verse makes it clear, that regular human blood, can not enter into heaven;
Therefore when Jesus went to heaven to place His blood on the altar, that blood could not have been, “regular human blood”.

But.......at the time that the Lord made this trip to heaven, he had already risen from the grave, in a glorified body:
Therefore the remainder of the blood His body, had also been glorified.

So this gives us no help at all, as to what kind of blood the Lord had, before his death.

 

[Winman]

Hello dwmoeller1

You asked........

HankD beat me to it, but I was going to say that the context of this verse makes it clear, that regular human blood, can not enter into heaven;
Therefore when Jesus went to heaven to place His blood on the altar, that blood could not have been, “regular human blood”.

But.......at the time that the Lord made this trip to heaven, he had already risen from the grave, in a glorified body:
Therefore the remainder of the blood His body, had also been glorified.

So this gives us no help at all, as to what kind of blood the Lord had, before his death.

Jesus had regular blood, and regular flesh except WITHOUT sin.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus body was just like ours. He got hungry. He fell asleep in a boat in the middle of a storm. You have to be pretty tired to sleep during a storm.

Matt 8: 24 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.

This was no shower, it says it was a "great tempest".

Jesus was flesh and blood just like us, but he was not sinful flesh, because he never sinned.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus blood could be offered just as it was because he was without sin.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Winman, and thank you.

You have settled this question for me, with........
Hebrews 2:14
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”

This is a clear as it can be.
--------------------------------------------------
Jesus’ blood, was just like yours and mine.

 

[HankD]

Hi Winman, and thank you.

You have settled this question for me, with........
Hebrews 2:14
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”

This is a clear as it can be.
--------------------------------------------------
Jesus’ blood, was just like yours and mine.

Yes very good passage winman.

HankD

 

[dwmoeller1]

“Flesh and blood” or a person in the state of mortality (still subject to death) cannot enter heaven.

They must be changed or translated and receive an immortal incorruptible body whose life force is the Spirit of God and not oxygenated blood.

Nothing you presented precludes oxygenated blood though (as stilllearning seems to argue). Likewise, the fact that we may not need to survive by eating food in our resurrected bodies either doesn't preclude the fact that Christ still ate food.

I suspect we would agree on the whole of I Cor 15. Its stilllearning's take that I am interested in.

 

[dwmoeller1]

Hello dwmoeller1

You asked........

HankD beat me to it, but I was going to say that the context of this verse makes it clear, that regular human blood, can not enter into heaven;
Therefore when Jesus went to heaven to place His blood on the altar, that blood could not have been, “regular human blood”.

1. I didn't see HankD arguing that at all (please correct me if I am wrong HankD).
2. You say it clear, but I can't see it. Explain your reasoning.
3. Its esp. not clear where you get Christ going to heaven to place His blood on the altar.

You keep arguing from "its clear" but it clearly not clear since NNE else seems to see it besides you. Thats not to say that you must be wrong in your conclusion, merely that its not clear as you say/assume and thus needs more detailed explanation how you get from point A to point B in your reasoning.

 

[jbh28]

Jesus had regular blood, and regular flesh except WITHOUT sin.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus body was just like ours. He got hungry. He fell asleep in a boat in the middle of a storm. You have to be pretty tired to sleep during a storm.

Matt 8: 24 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.

This was no shower, it says it was a "great tempest".

Jesus was flesh and blood just like us, but he was not sinful flesh, because he never sinned.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus blood could be offered just as it was because he was without sin.

Good job Winman. Hebrews 2:14 settled the question for me when I had this discussion on another board one time. Good post.

 

[jbh28]

Part 2

stilllearning brought up the first point about the type of blood and now has brought up another point. I was sure about the first one, but have some questions on this one. stilllearning said...

Therefore when Jesus went to heaven to place His blood on the altar, that blood could not have been, “regular human blood”.

Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus went to heaven and tool his literal blood and laid it on the alter? I've heard this before but never have found it. I had a guy one time say it and when he was trying to find it, he couldn't at the time.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Jesus had normal blood just like us.

Bingo - simple enough

 

[Luke2427]

Here we can come to a fairly solid conclusion: Since Scripture neither tells us nor gives us any real clue to the matter, even if its vital we can conclude that its not vital for us to know. Some may find it interesting to speculate (although, for me, the lack of ANY sort of clues in Scripture makes even that pointless), but if one goes beyond what Scripture actually says they have gone way too far and their conclusions should be taken with a truck of salt.

Yes. Shout this from the housetops. This applies to EVERYTHING. If you don't have bible for some doctrine you wish to preach then for goodness sake keep silent on it.

 

[stilllearning]

Good morning jbh28

You asked......

“Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus went to heaven and tool his literal blood and laid it on the alter? I've heard this before but never have found it. I had a guy one time say it and when he was trying to find it, he couldn't at the time.”

Well there are at least two passages, that tell us that this is what happened.

The first, is in John 20:, where Mary Magdalene being the first one to come to the Lord’s grave, and the first to find his body missing, runs into Him.
At first Jesus keeps His identity secret, but seeing her weeping causes Him to reveal Himself to her.

Now Jesus had just risen from three days & nights in hell and having just received His glorified body, is approached by Mary, and the Bible says.......
John 20:17
“Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”

Now, we might ask, why didn’t Jesus simply transport directly from hell to heaven, to see His Father? He was in Spiritual form, and would have had no problem entering heaven.
The reason is because He needed His Glorified body, for this trip; Therefore he needed to make a quick stop on earth to jump back into His body(having instantaneously been glorified), and as He was walking out of the grave, He met Mary.
--------------------------------------------------
Now inquiring minds, would ask; Why did He need His Body, for this trip to heaven.
And we find this answered in Hebrews......
Heb 9:11,12
V.11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
V.12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Here we see the fulfilment of the statement in the Old Testament.....
Leviticus 17:11
“For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.”

From this we learn, that Jesus went to heaven immediately following his resurrection and placed the remainder of His blood, on the altar in heaven, so that our sins would be forgiven.
--------------------------------------------------
Now here you quote me, earlier in this thread, saying.......

“Therefore when Jesus went to heaven to place His blood on the altar, that blood could not have been, “regular human blood”.

And sure enough it couldn’t have been.

But remember, this blood was in Jesus’ “Glorified body”, therefore this blood was also Glorified, so that it was able to enter into heaven.

 

[HankD]

1. I didn't see HankD arguing that at all (please correct me if I am wrong HankD).
2. You say it clear, but I can't see it. Explain your reasoning.
3. Its esp. not clear where you get Christ going to heaven to place His blood on the altar.

You keep arguing from "its clear" but it clearly not clear since NNE else seems to see it besides you. Thats not to say that you must be wrong in your conclusion, merely that its not clear as you say/assume and thus needs more detailed explanation how you get from point A to point B in your reasoning.

"regular human blood"? Yes, because as the Scripture declares in the Hebrews passage that winman quoted - He too took part of the same flesh and blood as we. He was truely man.

However, He was the sinless God-man. His blood had certain qualities and power to do that which ours does not/can not:

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

HankD

 

[jbh28]

Heb 9:11,12
V.11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
V.12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Yes, by the shedding of His blood, he was able to enter into the holy place. But it doesn't say that He took his literal blood there. This is where my confusion on the subject gets entered.

Here we see the fulfilment of the statement in the Old Testament.....
Leviticus 17:11
“For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.”

From this we learn, that Jesus went to heaven immediately following his resurrection and placed the remainder of His blood, on the altar in heaven, so that our sins would be forgiven.

It doesn't say that though. Where in any of the passages does it say that Jesus entered into heaven and placed his blood on an alter in heaven?

 

[Winman]

Yes, by the shedding of His blood, he was able to enter into the holy place. But it doesn't say that He took his literal blood there. This is where my confusion on the subject gets entered.
It doesn't say that though. Where in any of the passages does it say that Jesus entered into heaven and placed his blood on an alter in heaven?

Hebrews chapter 9 tells us this.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The OT tabernacle was simply a picture or figure of Jesus who would enter the most holy of holies in heaven and sprinkle his blood on the mercy seat. I believe this was the very same blood that spilled out of him when his side was pierced on the cross. How could he collect this blood that spilled on the ground? He is God, he could do this.

To answer Stilllearning, Jesus could not be touched for eight days. Go back to Leviticus chapter 8 and you will see Aaron and his sons had to remain at the door of the tabernacle for seven days. They had to wash and consecrate themselves. They could not be touched, this would defile them.

Lev 8:33 And ye shall not go out of the door of the tabernacle of the congregation in seven days, until the days of your consecration be at an end: for seven days shall he consecrate you.
34 As he hath done this day, so the LORD hath commanded to do, to make an atonement for you.
35 Therefore shall ye abide at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation day and night seven days, and keep the charge of the LORD, that ye die not: for so I am commanded.

After eight days they were allowed to enter the tabernacle. But only the high priest could enter the holiest of holies.

Lev 9:1 And it came to pass on the eighth day, that Moses called Aaron and his sons, and the elders of Israel;

After sprinkling blood on the mercy seat for the sins of the people, when Aaron came out he could then be touched. It was the same for Jesus, after 8 days he was touched by his disciples.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus could not be touched the very day he arose, it would defile him. After seven days he entered the holy of holies and offered his blood on the mercy seat for our sins. After this he could be touched because we are no longer unclean.