Explain This:

[webdog]

No. The answer is simple. A physically dead person cannot break any law.

A physically dead person cannot do anything physical and a spiritually dead person cannot do anything spiritual.

...yet a spiritually dead person can? How can a spiritual corpse refuse Christ? Sin?

This is one of the main inconsistencies that lead me away from this theology.

 

[webdog]

There was no ad hominem in what I said.

Yet there is much ad nauseam in yours.

Whatever. I'm sure this was meant as a compliment, right? You want to talk about nausea?

One major problem I see with those who can't believe this is that they cannot fathom God being Sovereign, don't like it, and demand their personal rights.

Looking at others who fight against this truth, I see them as they are; proof-texters, and can't generally see context, and have a rather shallow undertanding of Scripture, and typically abuse those who read and study. That is scary to me. They can't let go and let God.

...all this coming from the one who doesn't claim to know reformed theology all that well still FYI, With a post like this, you really have no business calling Luke out on any of his posts.

 

[Luke2427]

First of all the choice of words comes from the author who penned them.
Second, just because you say CANNOT in all caps and bold, does not make it so.

And furthermore, I do not agree, ascribe nor accept Your conclusions. Just as you do not mine.

Have a nice day.

The Scripture says it though, quantum.

The natural man received not the things of the Spirit of God NEITHER CAN HE.

Repentance is a command from God. The Bible is clear in Romans 8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

 

[Luke2427]

...yet a spiritually dead person can? How can a spiritual corpse refuse Christ? Sin?

This is one of the main inconsistencies that lead me away from this theology.

He is not rejecting with his spirit he is doing it in his flesh.

Romans 8
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

 

[webdog]

He is not rejecting with his spirit he is doing it in his flesh.

Romans 8
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

If that were the case, only his flesh would be held accountable, but from Scripture we know this is not the case.

 

[Luke2427]

This is false and you know it, you simply cannot understand my position. Man has the ability to believe, we believe every day. Calvinists know this, so they have to explain it away. They will say, Yes, man can believe anyone EXCEPT God. Problem is, you don't have scripture to support it. Now, see if you can grasp this, faith cannot exist in a vacuum, there must always be an object of faith, something to believe in. And this is what God provides, he provides his promises in his word. He does not magically zap us to believe, that is pure mysticism and came from Augustine. That is pure heresy. No, God gives us promises which provide an object of faith that enables us to believe. This is God's grace provided to all men out of his love and willingness to save all men. Now that we have God's promise we can choose to believe or not. Does the Bible say God zapped Abraham to believe? No, he gave Abraham a promise to be the father of many nations. And even though Abraham and Sarah were past age, Abraham believed God. And AFTER he believed, then God imputed righteousness to him.
We could not believe God unless he first provided a promise to us. This is his grace.

Are you going to respond to any posts? You seem to cherry pick which posts you respond to. About three quarters of the posts I address to you go without response from you.

 

[Luke2427]

If that were the case, only his flesh would be held accountable, but from Scripture we know this is not the case.

Not true.

to have a point you need to back it up. You saying it doesn't make it so.

I gave you Bible that proves it yet you still do not yield.

 

[webdog]

Not true.

to have a point you need to back it up. You saying it doesn't make it so.

I gave you Bible that proves it yet you still do not yield.

What are you talking about?!? You said it was the flesh rejecting, not the spirit. The burden of proof is on YOU that you are still held spiritually accountable for a physical rejection. As you said, "saying it doesn't make it so".

 

[preacher4truth]

Whatever. I'm sure this was meant as a compliment, right? You want to talk about nausea?

One major problem I see with those who can't believe this is that they cannot fathom God being Sovereign, don't like it, and demand their personal rights.

Looking at others who fight against this truth, I see them as they are; proof-texters, and can't generally see context, and have a rather shallow undertanding of Scripture, and typically abuse those who read and study. That is scary to me. They can't let go and let God.

...all this coming from the one who doesn't claim to know reformed theology all that well still FYI, With a post like this, you really have no business calling Luke out on any of his posts.

Yep, I spoke the truth. Now you're bringing up a dead horse*.

(*i.e. a straw man.)

More ad nauseam from you, now coupled with ad hominem.

Blessings

 

[webdog]

Yep, I spoke the truth. Now you're bringing up a dead horse*.

(*i.e. a straw man.)

More ad nauseam from you, now coupled with ad hominem.

Blessings

You can remove the plank from your eye at any time you know. You have the free will to do that

If you don't see your comments as inflammatory, but "truth" (which is not), you are more confused than I originally thought.

Also, please learn what ad hominem and strawman mean.

 

[preacher4truth]

You can remove the plank from your eye at any time you know. You have the free will to do that

If you don't see your comments as inflammatory, but "truth" (which is not), you are more confused than I originally thought.

Also, please learn what ad hominem and strawman mean.

I've just proven I know what they mean. :smilewinkgrin:

Why not go find out what the Gospel is?

Also, I can admit to not knowing a lot about reformed theology. I can take it. This isn't about me. I'm nothing. He? Everything.

Blessing

 

[Luke2427]

...yet a spiritually dead person can? How can a spiritual corpse refuse Christ? Sin?

This is one of the main inconsistencies that lead me away from this theology.

The spirit is not the thing doing the rejecting because the spirit is dead. The flesh is, as I have already proven with Romans 8.

The spirit is not doing any rejecting. It is dead. The flesh, the natural man, the carnal mind is what is doing the rejecting.

The natural man CANNOT receive the things of the Spirit of God.

The carnal mind CANNOT be subject to the law of God.

Jesus said, "That which is flesh is flesh..." so "ye must be born again" because "except ye be born again ye cannot SEE the Kingdom of God."

 

[webdog]

I see you roam the BB to find people to fight with. I'm not interested.

I hope you are not questioning my salvation with your gospel comment.

It's funny...you claim "truth" when describing me and my non reformed brothers...yet by your own admission claim not to even know your own doctrine.

 

[Luke2427]

What are you talking about?!? You said it was the flesh rejecting, not the spirit. The burden of proof is on YOU that you are still held spiritually accountable for a physical rejection. As you said, "saying it doesn't make it so".

No sir, first you must acknowledge that the Bible teaches that it is the FLESH not the Spirit that is doing the rejecting.

God can hold accountable anyone he wants to hold accountable- he is God.

But the fact that man in his flesh rejects God is plenty enough reason for man to hold him accountable.


And it is his soul that enters the flames of perdition.

 

[preacher4truth]

I see you roam the BB to find people to fight with. I'm not interested.

I hope you are not questioning my salvation with your gospel comment.

It's funny...you claim "truth" when describing me and my non reformed brothers...yet by your own admission claim not to even know your own doctrine.

Uh, no, that would be you roaming and bringing up dead horses to drum up a fight.

I'm simply defending myself. But no more with you.

It's not my fault you couldn't and can't explain what the Gospel is. And now you see more in it (That you can't tell what it is) than what is necessary?

I've never said I don't know my doctrine. That came from you. Not knowing it, and not knowing it all (ahem) are two different things.

Blessing

 

[DHK]

You didn't respond to what I said. I'll let you try again cause I'm nice. You say we must do something before we are born of God. We must by our own "will" have faith to be regenerate. So you are the one saying that. You guys are saying that we must have faith by our own will, so that's why I put "faith" beside of the will of man.

Show me a verse where faith doesn't come first.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Faith comes first.
Therefore, being justified by faith we have peace with God. Faith comes first
Call upon the name of the Lord, and thou shalt be saved. Faith comes first.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)
Faith comes first.

Literally every verse concerning salvation requires a person to have faith first. First there is faith, then there is salvation. It is salvation 101; soteriology 101.
Another fact: faith is not a work. I trusted that we all agreed on that point.
Therefore I am not "doing" anything but trusting Christ when I receive him as my Saviour. I am receiving by faith the gift of eternal life. My child does nothing when I give him a gift. He receives it and that is all. No work is involved. There is faith involved but not work. He receives it by faith.

That is the teaching in John 1:12--For as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name.

Which were born, not of blood, [not because you have a Christian family--it does not run in the blood or genes] nor of the will of the flesh, [not of the works that you do in the flesh--think of Abraham in Romans 4:1,2], nor of the will of man [not by reformation--by man's own will, him wanting to enter (nothing about faith here) Barnes states that it refers to a man's own human power, but not "faith", but of God. (John 1:13)

Faith is mentioned in verse 12. Why would the author contradict himself by redefining it in verse 13. Then the passage wouldn't make sense. Faith never comes before salvation/regeneration which both happen at the same time. That is one of the flaws of Calvinism.

Let me reiterate something I did not say. I did not, and never have said:
We must do something before we are born again.
That sir, is a blatant false accusation.

 

[psalms109:31]

Truth

I can stand in front of you all day offering a gift of faith and object, but you have to do a verb an action to receive , believe and trust.

This is up to man, because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, but He is only going to save believers in His Son.

The gift of God faith comes from God to trust in God and accept it comes from us not God.

God doesn't have to trust in nothing, we do.

 

[Luke2427]

Show me a verse where faith doesn't come first.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Faith comes first.
Therefore, being justified by faith we have peace with God. Faith comes first
Call upon the name of the Lord, and thou shalt be saved. Faith comes first.

Salvation is not complete until one believes. But the process begins with regeneration so that one CAN believe so that one CAN be saved.

The Bible is clear that one CANNOT believe until he is made more than natural- that is, until he is made spiritually alive.

The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God NEITHER CAN HE... (I Cor. 2:14)

Romans 8

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Why can't those that are in the flesh please God?

Because without FAITH it is impossible to please God and it is impossible to have faith in the flesh.

Why is it impossible to have faith before regeneration? Because faith is "receiving the things of the Spirit of God" and the natural man cannot do this.

 

[DHK]

I can stand in front of you all day offereing a gift of faith and object, but you have to do a verb an action to receive , believe and trust.

This is up to man, because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, but He is only going to save believers in His Son.

The gift of God faith comes from God to trust in God and accept it comes from us not God.

God doesn't have to trust in nothing, we do.

Quite true (your last statement).
Faith comes as much from God, as does my faith when I put my key into the ignition of my car and exercise faith that it will start.
Faith is faith. It is confidence in the word or even object of another.
The object of my faith is Christ; how about yours?

 

[preacher4truth]

There is no such thing as faith unless there is an object in which to place that faith first. Otherwise it is no different than the faith in faith doctrine of Word-faith.

Grace comes first, or there is no reason for faith. God makes the move, not us.