Was Faith a Gift?

[preacher4truth]

The faith we have been given at salvation, was it a gift from God, or was it something we already had?

"For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith." Romans 12:3 I believe Paul here is instructing us by reminding us to be humble and take a look back at salvation and what was given to us then. We've gained nothing on our own, not even the ability to believe.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

Salvation, faith and our spiritual gifts are each the gift of God.

I heard a message today stating that even our faith to believe is God's gift given to us, and that it is coupled together with our spiritual gift(s) given to us at the time of our salvation; "But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore it says, WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS UNTO MEN." Ephesians 4:7-8.

Also in Romans 12 we see the parallel between the gift of faith, and the working of our spiritual gift(s) within the body of Christ, which is the exercise of our spiritual gifts for one anothers edification. Faith and our spiritual gift seem to be dealt in a measure, or some proportion was given to each of us.

Both the gift to believe, or faith properly, and the giving and working of our spiritual gift both seem to have been given to us at salvation as a gift by the grace of God.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes, faith is a gift. And eternal life is called a FREE gift. Reckon Paul was trying his best to get a point accross?

 

[freeatlast]

Yes just as much as repentance is an extended gift to gentiles. However that does not negate the individuals responsibility to exercise that gift unto salvation.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes, faith is a gift. And eternal life is called a FREE gift. Reckon Paul was trying his best to get a point accross?

Yep. Paul is getting his point across. We had nothing to do with salvation. It was all Him, and, a gift.

Are there any yellow lake perch over there in Kentucky? Best fish in the world to me, haven't caught any since being up in Cleveland a few years back.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes just as much as repentance is an extended gift to gentiles. However that does not negate the individuals responsibility to exercise that gift unto salvation.

I don't know if I'd agree we exercised it to salvation. That could imply some sort of working on our own, but I think I get your meaning there. :thumbsup:

 

[kyredneck]

Yep. Paul is getting his point across. We had nothing to do with salvation. It was all Him, and, a gift.

Are there any yellow lake perch over there in Kentucky? Best fish in the world to me, haven't caught any since being up in Cleveland a few years back.

Ah! Missouri! You all live in almost fishin' heaven (at least catfishin' anyway)! Naw, around here we don't have yellow perch, but, in some parts of Kentucky they do. Here we have their cousins, sauger, which I think are just as good as them or walleye.

Do you, have you, fish for flatheads?

 

[preacher4truth]

Ah! Missouri! You all live in almost fishin' heaven (at least catfishin' anyway)! Naw, around here we don't have yellow perch, but, in some parts of Kentucky they do. Here we have their cousins, sauger, which I think are just as good as them or walleye.

Do you, have you, fish for flatheads?

Yeah, Missouri is not bad fishing at all. I used to catch saugeye in Columbus OH, at a river with chartreuse twister tails and leadhead jigs. We used to make our own leadheads. They are virtually the same as a walleye, good eating fish.

As far as catfish, we set out trot lines, bait them with what they call perch here (blue gill and sun fish) but never have specifically gone after flatheads, mostly we get channel, although some buddies have caught some 80 pound flatheads.

Someone here told me he knew where to catch perch, so I went only to find out they're blue gill...lol. He says "dems perch here" I said "dems blue gill everywhere else." The "show me" state. Pfffft.

 

[psalms109:31]

trust

Not everyone is going to see Scripture the way we do,they are going to see it through the measure of faith that God has given them. God has given it through the words of Jesus. Gift free or not we have to accept it in order to receive it. Trusting in the finished work of Christ is not work only to those who are looking for a way out of it.

 

[kyredneck]

... Gift free or not we have to accept it in order to receive it. ....

If I were your rich uncle and gave you a Cadillac by parking it in front of your house and left the keys in it for you to use and enjoy, that's it as far as I'm concerned. If you never get in the Caddy and derive the benefits from it, it's your loss. I still gave you that gift. It's yours as far as I'm concerned. I am convinced that the majority of God's children never grab hold of and take advantage of what He has given them. The cares of this world choke it out or the religious systems they've been exposed to drives them away.

 

[psalms109:31]

God

He didn't give a Cadillac. He gave me believe in Jesus His Son and be saved or not or and be condemned. He gave me two direction . I am saved or condemned by His choice, His will to save believers and condemn those who do not. This faith came from His word not mine praise God through Jesus

 

[webdog]

If I were your rich uncle and gave you a Cadillac by parking it in front of your house and left the keys in it for you to use and enjoy, that's it as far as I'm concerned. If you never get in the Caddy and derive the benefits from it, it's your loss. I still gave you that gift. It's yours as far as I'm concerned. I am convinced that the majority of God's children never grab hold of and take advantage of what He has given them. The cares of this world choke it out or the religious systems they've been exposed to drives them away.

That's actually a great analogy debunking limited atonement

 

[kyredneck]

...... This faith came from His word not mine praise God through Jesus

I'm gonna pull a Missouri thang on you....show me that, from scripture....and Ro 10:17 doesn't even apply here.

 

[kyredneck]

That's actually a great analogy debunking limited atonement

I don't get it. You'll have to explain.

 

[psalms109:31]

It does apply

I still believe God loves the world that He shows no favoritism every man has the same chance Jesus. To believe in Him and be saved or not and be condemned and we were sent out with that message from Christ Jesus our Authority.
I will not limit it to how man sees the world, but the way God does everyone in it.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

John 12:49
For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

[kyredneck]

I still believe God loves the world that He shows no favoritism every man has the same chance Jesus. To believe in Him and be saved or not and be condemned and we were sent out with that message from Christ Jesus our Authority.
I will not limit it to how man sees the world, but the way God does everyone in it.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

John 12:49
For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen. Heb 11:1

The scriptures are clear. There are those that cannot see, cannot hear, cannot recieve, cannot know. Period. Only those that have already recieved the free gift have the capability of actually having that assurance, that conviction of things not seen.

....and go to Ro 10:18, the next verse. Everybody has already heard (in your misapplication of the passage).

 

[Luke2427]

Ah! Missouri! You all live in almost fishin' heaven (at least catfishin' anyway)! Naw, around here we don't have yellow perch, but, in some parts of Kentucky they do. Here we have their cousins, sauger, which I think are just as good as them or walleye.

Do you, have you, fish for flatheads?

I hate to hijack this thread but you guys are talking about one of my favorite subjects.

You know Mississippi is considered to be the catfish capitol of the world, don't you?

I love to trot line.

A cousin of mine has a camp on the Tombigbee River we like to fish. We general come in with 50 to 75 pounds in a little better than a day of fishing.

 

[Tom Butler]

Philippians 1:29
"For unto you it has been given on the behalf of Christ, not only to believe, but also to suffer for his sake."

Not only is saving faith a gift from God, so is repentance.

Acts 11:17-18 (Peter is speaking after seeing the Holy Spirit fall on Gentiles)
"Forasmuch then, as God gave them the like gift, as he did to us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, what was I that I could withstand God?

18 And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."

There's the gift of believing and repenting in the same passage.

 

[psalms109:31]

Message

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen. Heb 11:1

The scriptures are clear. There are those that cannot see, cannot hear, cannot recieve, cannot know. Period. Only those that have already recieved the free gift have the capability of actually having that assurance, that conviction of things not seen.

....and go to Ro 10:18, the next verse. Everybody has already heard (in your misapplication of the passage).

Through the words of Jesus anyone can hear and see, it is Spirit and life.

It doesn't incline anyone's heart to believe it gives two direction. God through the words of Jesus has placed before us life and death so choose life and live.

 

[David Lamb]

Through the words of Jesus anyone can hear and see, it is Spirit and life.

It doesn't incline anyone's heart to believe it gives two direction. God through the words of Jesus has placed before us life and death so choose life and live.

So what caused you and I choose life and live while "others make the wretched choice, and rather starve than come"? Surely it was not because we are cleverer, or better people.

 

[psalms109:31]

God

It is God who decided to hide the truth from the wise and learned who depend on themselves and it is God who will keep the meek and humble who trust in His Son.

This is His decision, but we know it isn't God who doesn't want them to depend on Him, for He wants all men to be saved and come to His knowledge of the truth. They decided to listen to the murderer from the beginning instead of God.