......Is this orthodox, and who else believes in this mysterious salvation that has not been revealed to man?
Sounds about as mysterious as the wind blowing where it wills [Jn 3:8]. Sounds about as mysterious as those in other nations being born from above outside of the Mosaic Covenant [Ps 87]. Sounds about as mysterious as to how Gentiles that had not the law could have that law written in their hearts [Ro 2:14,15].
I believe this to be on par with Millenial Exclusion, what the BB has deemed a "damnable heresy".
Does Millenial Exclusion make a clear distinction between the effectual call and the gospel call like the Old Baptists do/did? The
OLD Southern Baptists used to make a clear distinction between regeneration and gospel conversion as the Primitives still do today..
http://www.founders.org/journal/fj02/article2.htm l
Excerpts:
"In many Christian circles today experiencing "regeneration" (or "being born again") is simply something that happens when a person "makes a decision to accept Jesus Christ into his heart as personal Savior." Now it is certainly true that Jesus is the Savior, and that he saves sinners on a personal level. However,
the idea that the experience of regeneration is a decision which every sinner ought to make and indeed every sinner can make is an idea which is seriously defective."
"James P. Boyce (first president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Louisville, Kentucky): "It is not strange, therefore, that they [i.e. regeneration and conversion] are often confounded. Yet, after all, the Scriptures also teach that
regeneration is the work of God, changing the heart of man by his sovereign will, while
conversion is that act of man turning towards God with the new inclination thus given to his heart" (Abstract of Systematic Theology, p. 374)."
"John A. Broadus (distinguished professor of New Testament and successor to Boyce at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary): "1. Q. What is meant by the word regeneration? A. Regeneration is God's causing a person to be born again. 9.
Q. Does faith come before the new birth? A. No, it is the new heart that truly repents and believes" (taken from Broadus' A Catechism of Bible Teaching, reprinted in A Baptist Treasury, pp. 67-68)."
"John L. Dagg (first writing Southern Baptist theologian; president of Mercer University in Georgia): "In our natural state we are totally depraved. No inclination to holiness exists in the carnal heart; and no holy act can be performed, or service to God rendered, until the heart is changed. This change, it is the office of the Holy Spirit to effect. . . . But,
in his own time and manner, God, the Holy Spirit, makes the word effectual in producing a new affection in the soul: and, when the first movement of love to God exists, the first throb of spiritual life commences" (A Manual of Theology, pp. 277, 279)."
"B. H. Carroll (founder and first president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas): "The true scriptural position [concerning regeneration] is this: There is,
first of all, a direct influence of the Holy Spirit on the passive spirit of the sinner, quickening him or making him sensitive to the preaching of the Word. In this the sinner is passive. But he is not a subject of the new birth without contrition, repentance and faith. In exercising these he is active. Yet even his contrition is but a response to the Spirit's conviction, and the exercise of his repentance is but a response to the Spirit's conviction, and
the exercise of his repentance and faith are but responses to the antecedent spiritual graces of repentance and faith." Carroll goes on to state that
"repentance and faith are fruits of regeneration" (An Interpretation of the English Bible, Volume 4, p. 287)."
"The truth concerning the Bible doctrine of regeneration is the same today as it was when God the Holy Spirit taught it to the inspired writers of Holy Scriptures, and as it was understood by our Baptist forefathers who labored to the glory of God in the name of Jesus Christ within the confines of the Southern Baptist denomination. But then, that should not surprise us, because truth does not change.
If the rank and file of Southern Baptists today do not embrace and impart the Bible doctrine of regeneration as set forth in this brief survey, then it must be either that they have not been taught or that they refuse to be taught."
"Those who have not been taught need to be instructed. We must do all we can to teach this glorious truth to them for two reasons: 1) Their spiritual well-being depends upon a right understanding of this truth. 2) The task of mission and evangelism cannot truly advance apart from a proper understanding of this truth. Those, however, who refuse to be instructed in this way need to be identified as having forsaken
the biblical and historic Southern Baptist understanding of this essential doctrine. Whether in the pulpit, the class room, the agency administrative office, or the trustee board room, it must be acknowledged that there has been a violation of doctrinal integrity when men (and/or women) teach an aberration of this vital subject concerning the new birth."
Here is a quote from Winman (you know Winman, who claims not to read commentaries or the works of man and all the while profusely quoting Reformed writers):
Here is a statement from V. A. Voorhiss, assistant to R.C. Sproul confirming that some Calvinists teach a person can be regenerated for years before placing faith in Christ.
“When the RSB speaks in the notes of John 3 of "infants being born again," it is speaking of the work of quickening God does in them which inclines their will to Him. In Protestantism, regeneration always precedes faith and if God quickens them, the person will surely come . . .Often, regeneration and our subsequent faith happen apparently simultaneously but logically, regeneration must precede faith. An infant’s faith may not come until years after God has worked by His Holy Spirit to regenerate him or her. Two Biblical examples of infants who were born again are seen in Psalm 22:9-10 and Luke 1:15.”
So, there you have it, some Calvinists teach you can have spiritual life for years without Christ. This is serious error.
The scriptures say if you do not have Jesus, you do not have life.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Winman thinks it awful that Calvinists could believe as Voorhiss states here, “ An infant’s faith may not come until years after God has worked by His Holy Spirit to regenerate him or her.” [Incidentally Winman, thank you very much for this excellent quote from Voorhiss; please give more quotes]
Well, I've even a more awful thought for the synergists: What if there are those of His children that God has no intention of bringing into the visible kingdom of Christ?
Do you look at faith in Christ as something that you MUST do and totally disregard what a blessed foretaste of glory divine that our timely salvation really is?
