True to form.
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Does this indicate a choice?
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True to form.
quantumfaith
Active Member
So are you Luke....so are you.
Quantum, you would pat the Devil on the back if he said something against the doctrines of grace, it seems to me.
And you do not hesitate to reprimand any Calvinist who you think is being hard as unChristian; and you NEVER, EVER jump on one of these with a nameless theology for doing the same.
This is your M.O.
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Well, if God is not willing that anyone perish, then why do people perish? You are either left with an weak god that cannot get things done. Or, you are left with everyone being saved.
If you say that neither one of those are correct, then you recognize that there is something greater than just a desire to save all. And then I reply, thanks for agreeing with me.
Well, if God is not willing that anyone perish, then why do people perish? You are either left with an weak god that cannot get things done. Or, you are left with everyone being saved.
If you say that neither one of those are correct, then you recognize that there is something greater than just a desire to save all. And then I reply, thanks for agreeing with me.
Exactly. And in the minds of these with nameless theologies, god ultimately wills that all perish who do not choose him.
It still has God willing that some perish.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Well, if God is not willing that anyone perish, then why do people perish? You are either left with an weak god that cannot get things done. Or, you are left with everyone being saved.
If you say that neither one of those are correct, then you recognize that there is something greater than just a desire to save all. And then I reply, thanks for agreeing with me.
Very simple, they reject God throughout their entire life, even to the point of their last breath.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Wrong....again Luke.
I agree. But you didn't answer my real question. Let me phrase it better. Why does God allow people to perish if that's not his will to do?
In your mind God has made us all robots. However, the Bible says:
First, that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. That is his will.
Second, he says: God, who will have all men to be saved. That is a clear statement of his will.
Third, He has created us in his own image, different than the rest of his creation including the animals. His image includes a mind that is able to reason, think, and a will that is able to make decisions. He did not make us robots, but rather gave us a will to choose between good and evil; to choose whether to receive Christ or reject him. That choice is ours to make.
Therefore, God is not willing that any should perish. However, if some perish it is because they choose to perish; they choose to reject the light that God has given them. God does not force people to accept Him as Savior. Where do you see that in Scripture. But this is your teaching. It is one or the other:
Either God forces certain to believe--the elect: they have no choice.
Or, we are all robots forced to do what God wants.
That is the only conclusion one can come to in the Calvinistic model.
It is not his will that any of those to whom he made that promise- the one that the Lord is not slack concerning; the one that concerns him coming to get us one day- God is not willing that any of those to whom he made that promise should perish.
That is what that verse says. That is God's will. That none he promised to come and get should perish.
Thank God his will is always done. I will not perish. He will come and get me.
That is your idea, your limited interpretation, of what the verse says. But that is not what the verse says, and in the totality of the rest of Scripture we know it cannot say that. Scripture doesn't teach it.
(God) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)
Your interpretation plainly contradicts 1Tim.2:4.
However, let's look at the context which you have ignored.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2 Peter 3:9-10)
First:
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some account of delay, but is longsuffering towards you, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) (Darby)
The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) (WEB)
The "us" or "usward" is irrelevant. Other translations simply say us. God is patient with us. The truth is still stated in the second half of the verse: "He is not willing that ANY should perish." He doesn't say "any of the elect," but anyone. You can't insert your words, your theology where there is none. You are adding to the Word of God. It doesn't say (the elect). You have added that, thereby changing the meaning of the verse. Don't add to the Word of God.
Then consider 1Tim.2:4 which contradicts the false interpretation you have given to 1Pet.3:9
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)
quantumfaith
Active Member
If I say I'm willing that my son obeys me, and he doesn't...was that a true statement? If he disobeyed me, did I "will" his disobedience?Well, if God is not willing that anyone perish, then why do people perish? You are either left with an weak god that cannot get things done. Or, you are left with everyone being saved.
If you say that neither one of those are correct, then you recognize that there is something greater than just a desire to save all. And then I reply, thanks for agreeing with me.
The Bible says God is not willing that any perish. Just because they do doesn't change God's desire.
You have in essence called God a liar.
Why do you really care what he likes and agrees with? This is behavior I would expect on a playground.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Webdog, he thinks I simply cast dispersion on the "reformers". Not so. I do indeed enjoy dialogue when it is mutually respectful and free from sweeping assertions etc. I simply show my agreement with something someone has said that I could not say any better. I personally left the playground about 40 years ago.
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