Total Depravity = Hardening?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Absolutely. "God is not willing that any should perish..."

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (Titus 2:11)

That was always my argument & proof text against Limited Atonement. But then why do not all men get saved?

 

[DHK]

That was always my argument & proof text against Limited Atonement.

As far as the text is concerned (in John 10) it fits in well with:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved,
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shalt be saved.
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (John 1:12)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)

and many, many others.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thats not my systematic theology however

 

[quantumfaith]

If you are meek and humble and trust in the name of the Lord, you are a begger deserving nothing only getting what the Master has promissed you.

We who come know what the price of our sin is, death. We are saved by grace, because we haven't paid our debt Jesus did.

Trust in the Lord and we will not be disappointed or put to shame what a promise.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

That was always my argument & proof text against Limited Atonement. But then why do not all men get saved?

Some "men" are simply "vicious hardened" so that they will simply refuse to respond to any revelation they may be granted.

Some "men" are too grounded in the "natural" realm and will simply not believe in or accept that which they cannot experience in a real a tactile manner.

Just my thoughts EWF

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

JESUS DID NOT COME MERELY TO MAKE SALVATION POSSIBLE , BUT ACTUALLY TO SAVE PEOPLE. ( SORRY caps on) He did not come to make redemption possible; he died to redeem his people. He did come to make propitiation possible, He turned aside God's wrath for each of His elect people forever. He did not come to make reconciliation between God & man possible; he actually reconciled to God those whom the father had given him. he did not come merely to make atonement for sins possible, but actually to atone for sinners.

John 6:38-39
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

JESUS DID NOT COME MERELY TO MAKE SALVATION POSSIBLE , BUT ACTUALLY TO SAVE PEOPLE. ( SORRY caps on) He did not come to make redemption possible; he died to redeem his people. He did come to make propitiation possible, He turned aside God's wrath for each of His elect people forever. He did not come to make reconciliation between God & man possible; he actually reconciled to God those whom the father had given him. he did not come merely to make atonement for sins possible, but actually to atone for sinners.

John 6:38-39
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Amen! Preach it, brother! :thumbsup:

 

[Rippon]

JESUS DID NOT COME MERELY TO MAKE SALVATION POSSIBLE , BUT ACTUALLY TO SAVE PEOPLE. ( SORRY caps on) He did not come to make redemption possible; he died to redeem his people. He did not come to make propitiation possible, He turned aside God's wrath for each of His elect people forever. He did not come to make reconciliation between God & man possible; He actually reconciled to God those whom the Father had given him. He did not come merely to make atonement for sins possible, but actually to atone for certain sinners.

John 6:38-39
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Nicely said. I made some small corrections.

 

[DHK]

JESUS DID NOT COME MERELY TO MAKE SALVATION POSSIBLE , BUT ACTUALLY TO SAVE PEOPLE. ( SORRY caps on) He did not come to make redemption possible; he died to redeem his people. He did come to make propitiation possible, He turned aside God's wrath for each of His elect people forever. He did not come to make reconciliation between God & man possible; he actually reconciled to God those whom the father had given him. he did not come merely to make atonement for sins possible, but actually to atone for sinners.

John 6:38-39
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

And yet in contradiction to that statement the Bible clearly says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

 

[Rippon]

And yet in contradiction to that statement the Bible clearly says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

If the Lord propitiated the sins of every single individual,past,present and future --no wrath abides on them. Hence all are saved -- i.e. Universalism. That's not biblical to say the least.

 

[DHK]

If the Lord propitiated the sins of every single individual,past,present and future --no wrath abides on them. Hence all are saved -- i.e. Universalism. That's not biblical to say the least.

Is that your belief? I never stated that. I simply quoted a verse of Scripture that was in contradiction to what EWF had posted. If you have problems with Scripture take it up with God, not me.

 

[MB]

OK, how do you know your dealing with the Holy Spirit? And why are you taking it on yourself to explain grace. If God tells you something that you dont like do you tell him, " No I find it not fair & by my interpretation its just not biblical"? Admit it, your a humanist.

I'm not a humanist. I'm a born again Christian who has the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of me. How do I know it's the Holy Spirit that teaches me. I hope you know the answer to that question already. I know Him personally. All those who have submitted to His righteousness Romans 10:1-4 know Him personally. That's how. There isn't one man on earth I would trust my Salvation to.
MB

 

[quantumfaith]

I'm not a humanist. I'm a born again Christian who has the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of me. How do I know it's the Holy Spirit that teaches me. I hope you know the answer to that question already. I know Him personally. All those who have submitted to His righteousness Romans 10:1-4 know Him personally. That's how. There isn't one man on earth I would trust my Salvation to.
MB

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Jarthur001]

We are dead in OUR trespasses and sins...that is what Scripture says. We are not created dead in someone else sins.

One thing is for certain. There are those that post on here that never cease to amaze me. Priceless.

 

[Jarthur001]

I have to say I'm very surprised to see conservative Evangelicals debating whether or not we have Adam's guilt imputed to us. This was the error of Pelagius and was soundly rejected as heretical.

Scripture is plain regarding this....

We are conceived in sin (Ps. 51:5). Not that the act of David's conception was sinful, but it is saying that he was a sinner from conception.

We are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3).

In short, we sin because we are born sinners, sinners by our very nature.

There are 2 or 3 Pelagian's that post on here.

 

[Jarthur001]

It isn't a matter of using only a small percentage of their brain that is the problem with reformers. It's the dependence on their beloved reformers of the past, such as Calvin, in place of the clear teachings of scripture that is the problem. No one reading the bible would come up with this erroneous system. It takes extra-biblical teaching to become a Calvinist.

This is a lie.

 

[Robert Snow]

This is a lie.

So you say, but that only proves that you disagree with my assessment of the erroneous doctrine of Calvinism.

 

[Rippon]

Is that your belief? I never stated that. I simply quoted a verse of Scripture that was in contradiction to what EWF had posted. If you have problems with Scripture take it up with God, not me.

It's my belief that you think that the Lord propitiated the Father's wrath for each and every person who has and shall live. If that is indeed what you think then you have to deal with the idea that even people in perdition now and in the future had the removal of Divine wrath --only to receive Divine wrath for eternity in Hell. That would be injustice in the extreme.

In 1 John 2:2 John is saying that Christ is not only the propitiation for His own among the Jewish nation but for His children scattered around the world --not each and every person head-for-head. See John 11:51 and 52 for a proper understanding of 1 John 2:2 -- the very same author is speaking.

You would like John 2:2 to read :"He Himself is the proptiation for everyone,everywhere at all times." But,that's not a proper reading of the doctrine.

 

[Jarthur001]

So you say, but that only proves that you disagree with my assessment of the erroneous doctrine of Calvinism.

Robert,

To disagree what Scripture says in a passage, is one thing. This we will need live with. But to make up lies is something else.

YOU SAID..

It isn't a matter of using only a small percentage of their brain that is the problem with reformers.

That is a lie. Why would you say something like this?


YOU SAID...

It's the dependence on their beloved reformers of the past,

This too is a lie. You have been told this is wrong before, but it matters not, becaue you still lie about it. We agree with many men of the past, not because they said it, but because they read Scripture and see the same thing we do. If I know you liked basketball and I talked basketball with you and we happened to like the same team, does not mean I follow you and worship you. The love is Basketball. The truth is Scripture.

Please stop saying lies like this.

YOU ADD..

such as Calvin,

That is a Lie. There are many things I disagree with that Calvin said.


YOU SAID..

in place of the clear teachings of scripture that is the problem.

This too is a big fat lie. We don't think Calvin is higher than Scripture.

YOU SAID...

No one reading the bible would come up with this erroneous system.

That is a Lie. Now I know you meant this toward Calvinist, but the fact is, many other groups read the same Bible and disagree with you. Most of these other groups you and I would agree on as being wrong. But they use the same Bible.

YOU SAID..

It takes extra-biblical teaching to become a Calvinist.

That is a lie. Calvinism is pure Bible. Now I understand you read some passage in other ways. But this does not mean Calvinist go OUTSIDE Scripture, now does it?

 

[Robert Snow]

In 1 John 2:2 John is saying that Christ is not only the propitiation for His own among the Jewish nation but for His children scattered around the world --not each and every person head-for-head. See John 11:51 and 52 for a proper understanding of 1 John 2:2 -- the very same author is speaking.

You would like John 2:2 to read :"He Himself is the proptiation for everyone,everywhere at all times." But,that's not a proper reading of the doctrine.

Is there no ending to the twisting you Calvinists do to justify your error?

Jesus paid price for all who will trust in Him. His blood has the ability to forgive all sin everywhere, but for this to occur, a person must accept this forgiveness. If they reject this payment, they must pay the price their selves.