Acts 13:48

[webdog]

Osage/Ron, fancy meeting you guys here. This place ain't much better than the last.

What happened on that board?

 

[webdog]

No but it is the conclusion of your limited interpretation.

Hardly. I stick to context, you should try it sometime

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Osage/Ron, fancy meeting you guys here. This place ain't much better than the last.

JM!

I'm starting to feel at home. Good to see you on here as well. :wavey:

 

[Osage Bluestem]

So, the verse could simply be understood as meaning, "and as many [kinds] as were appointed to eternal life believed." Or put differently, "as many nations [Samaritan, Philistine, Ninevites, etc etc] as were appointed to eternal life proved their being chosen by their belief."

But it is clear from the passage that those who were appointed to eternal life then believed. Those not appointed to eternal life did not believe. Also it is clear from the context that those who did believe heard the message preached.

Acts 13:44-48 ESV
44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

What happened on that board?

We get infractions all the time for offending other "christian" groups like catholics and liberals.

The other site we know each other from is a site for various christian groups and the moderation is commited to relativism.

 

[Ron Wood]

What happened on that board?

I got banned for being honest enough to speak the truth. I had been warned by one of the mods there that there was a target on my back and that they were looking for an excuse to get rid of me. They weren't able to find one so after a few years they made one up.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I got banned for being honest enough to speak the truth. I had been warned by one of the mods there that there was a target on my back and that they were looking for an excuse to get rid of me. They weren't able to find one so after a few years they made one up.

I got warned as well by a moderator regarding the same message.

They eventualy banned me for offending roman catholics by saying they need to be evangelized for Christ.

My second profile was banned for a month recently for the same reason.

 

[webdog]

I got banned for being honest enough to speak the truth. I had been warned by one of the mods there that there was a target on my back and that they were looking for an excuse to get rid of me. They weren't able to find one so after a few years they made one up.

How petty. You won't have to worry about that here, our administrators and moderators target non-calvinists here :laugh: I know firsthand.

 

[Ron Wood]

Hardly. I stick to context, you should try it sometime

Show me one place I have posted here that is out of context. Throwing around unfounded accusations are we? I suspect that if you could come up with a better answer you would have.

 

[webdog]

Show me one place I have posted here that is out of context. Throwing around unfounded accusations are we? I suspect that if you could come up with a better answer you would have.

I was being facetious...

Actually, your second post on this thread alludes to the fact the primary meaning of tasso is what determines the context, and I disagree. The context determines the meaning of tasso.

 

[Ron Wood]

I believe it is Adam Clarke and maybe others who use the Calvinistic method of interpretation on this verse. What I mean is when the word "all" is used through scripture Calvinists often supply the word "all kinds" so as to make the intent to mean both Jews and Gentiles, rather than all mankind without exception. (which is a possibility, though unlikely in some context IMO)

Well, keeping that in mind, non-Calvinists can do the same with this verse. What we must remember is that the term "Gentiles" is not like the term "Jews," because Gentiles aren't all of one nation. Gentile simply means "non-Jew," so actually there are many nationalities that make up the Gentiles. In the context of Acts 13 the question of God's choosing other nations, besides Israel is in question. How do we know what nations God has chosen to allow to enter into His covenant? The authors answer is that you will know them by their faith. You will know the ones who have been appointed by the fruits of their faith.

So, the verse could simply be understood as meaning, "and as many [kinds] as were appointed to eternal life believed." Or put differently, "as many nations [Samaritan, Philistine, Ninevites, etc etc] as were appointed to eternal life proved their being chosen by their belief."

Now that is a stretch. Do you really expect any honest thinking person to swallow that?

 

[Ron Wood]

Actually it means supreme authority. Get a good dictionary

I don't need a dictionary in this case. The word actually has at least two meanings: ruler and a coin. Look it up for yourself.

Non sequitur as I already maintained God is in control.

OK. So then what is the extent of His control? And in order to keep this discussion short, if you answer everything then does that include man? Keep in mind Dan. 4:34,35.

You have just trampled God's sovereignty by telling Him what He must do, in essence "controlling" Him. Ironic.

Talk about context! In order to ignore the fact of the premise you try to step around it by making it say what it doesn't say. Refute the fact of the premise if you can rather than offering up red herrings.

That makes no sense.

Let me see if I can make it real simple just for you. If God's foresight of our decisions determine His decisions then our decisions control Him. If that is the case our decisions are god and not Him. Whatever controls God is God.

Agreed.

So what do you think His purpose is?

Sin is not of God.

Are we really going to get into the "God is the author of sin" nonsense? Given the fact that God is not the author of sin please explain why sin exists in light of the passages that clearly say that all things are of God.

I know you lean toward the hyper calvinist camp, or might be fully in it...but it is false.

Do you even know what a Hyper-Calvinist is? I am a high Calvinist to be sure.

Great passages...not one supports hyper-calvinism, though.

Never said that they did.

 

[webdog]

I don't need a dictionary in this case. The word actually has at least two meanings: ruler and a coin. Look it up for yourself.

Get a better dictionary, or do not cherry pick the meaning you want to insert. At any rate, do rulers of nations control every action of those they rule?

OK. So then what is the extent of His control? And in order to keep this discussion short, if you answer everything then does that include man? Keep in mind Dan. 4:34,35.

Third time...God is IN CONTROL. That does NOT mean God controls and determines ever act of man else every command I violate is really Him violating His own commands.

Talk about context! In order to ignore the fact of the premise you try to step around it by making it say what it doesn't say. Refute the fact of the premise if you can rather than offering up red herrings.

Mere obfuscation. You, a finite being have told God what He must do and how He must act to be sovereign.

Let me see if I can make it real simple just for you. If God's foresight of our decisions determine His decisions then our decisions control Him. If that is the case our decisions are god and not Him. Whatever controls God is God.

Another red herring. Who said anything about "foresight of our decisions"?

So what do you think His purpose is?

He has many purposes...what are you asking?

Are we really going to get into the "God is the author of sin" nonsense? Given the fact that God is not the author of sin please explain why sin exists in light of the passages that clearly say that all things are of God.

You are right...it is nonsense. Heresy, actually.

Do you even know what a Hyper-Calvinist is? I am a high Calvinist to be sure.

Yes...see your comment just above. There is nothing "high" about accusing God of authoring sin.

 

[Skandelon]

Now that is a stretch. Do you really expect any honest thinking person to swallow that?

People say that about Calvinistic versions of many texts everyday...

Do you expect any of us to swallow you're interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Tim 2:4, John 3:16-17, or especially verses like:

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

And

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation

 

[Skandelon]

But it is clear from the passage that those who were appointed to eternal life then believed.

Right, those of every gentile nation that was appointed proved their being appointed by their faith...that was my point. Just like when Calvinists says all means "all kinds" or the world means "all kinds in the world." Same principle here. "As many as" refers not to individuals but to various kinds/nations...

 

[Osage Bluestem]

People say that about Calvinistic versions of many texts everyday...

Do you expect any of us to swallow you're interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Tim 2:4, John 3:16-17, or especially verses like:

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

And

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation

Do you believe everyone who has ever lived or ever will live will be saved?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Right, those of every gentile nation that was appointed proved their being appointed by their faith...that was my point. Just like when Calvinists says all means "all kinds" or the world means "all kinds in the world." Same principle here. "As many as" refers not to individuals but to various kinds/nations...

In the passage we are talking about though there is a group of people being spoken to that heard the message and out of that group everyone who was appointed to eternal life believed.

It was a group of people gathered on the sabbath in the same city some were Jews some were gentiles.

Acts 13:44-48 ESV
44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

 

[Skandelon]

In the passage we are talking about though there is a group of people being spoken to that heard the message

Right, I know. And that group is made up of many different people groups. Unlike the Jews, the term "Gentiles" is a group of various nations.

and out of that group everyone who was appointed to eternal life believed.

OR...out of that group every people group who was appointed to eternal life believed. In other words, they proved their appointment by believing.

It was a group of people gathered on the sabbath in the same city some were Jews some were gentiles.

But Gentiles aren't a nation, that just mean "non-Jew" and thus could mean Samaritan, Roman or whatever... The big point of debate in those days was whether or not God granted salvation to other nations besides Israel. Some Judizers argued "no" while others allow for some lessor hated groups in as long as they converted to Judaism first. Different nationalities were hated more than others and the author is attempting to show that various nations represented were coming to faith proving their appointment by God.

 

[Skandelon]

Do you believe everyone who has ever lived or ever will live will be saved?

Or course not. But I don't believe God desires all men to be saved without exception either. He desires all men to freely choose to repent and worship Him, not that everyman will just be saved regardless of what they would freely decide.

 

[Tom Butler]

People say that about Calvinistic versions of many texts everyday...

Do you expect any of us to swallow you're interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Tim 2:4, John 3:16-17, or especially verses like:

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

And

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation

I try not to get into these discussions, but the quoting of 2 Cor 5:19 prompts a question.

If "world" in that verse means everyone without exception, how, then can this verse not be interpreted as universalism? I look forward to the exegesis.