Randomness in the Bible?

[Crabtownboy]

We are not saying that the Bible is a science text book. But when it speaks on any matter it speaks authoritatively. The randomness of God and His creation calls into question His Holy character.

In what way is his character negatively impacted by this idea of randomness?

The Lord does nothing at random. No Scripture can support such God-dishonoring junk.

Can you prove this assertion?

My position on this subject has nothing to do with Calvinism vs. Arminianism. Arminians in the past,as was recently mentioned elsewhere,would be aghast with their mouths agape hearing this nonsense about God's randomness.

I am not arguing, just trying to understand. Why does randomness bother you so much? Can't God do anything, anyway he wants? Can I presume to tell God how he must have acted and how he must act?

 

[sag38]

Evidently we don't serve God. Rather we are automatons destined to live in a fatalistic world.

 

[quantumfaith]

In what way is his character negatively impacted by this idea of randomness?



Can you prove this assertion?



I am not arguing, just trying to understand. Why does randomness bother you so much? Can't God do anything, anyway he wants? Can I presume to tell God how he must have acted and how he must act?

Thank you Crabtownboy

Comments such as "calls into question His Holy character" and "God dishonoring junk" are totally and completely uncalled for.

 

[Luke2427]

Thank you Crabtownboy

Comments such as "calls into question His Holy character" and "God dishonoring junk" are totally and completely uncalled for.

Ethically you do not get to speak about what is or is not "called for" since Robert Snow and others say some of the most HORRIFIC things about reformation theology and you NEVER lambaste them.

I don't mind you expressing your offense- but don't come in riding a high horse as if your primary concern is that brothers are treated properly when the only brothers you really care for are those who ascribe to this new theology that you hold to.

 

[Luke2427]

Evidently we don't serve God. Rather we are automatons destined to live in a fatalistic world.

Calvinism and fatalism have nothing to do with one another.

And I am still waiting on Scriptural support for this notion that many, if not most, if not the VAST MAJORITY of things that occur in this world happen at RANDOM.

Do you have any??

 

[quantumfaith]

Ethically you do not get to speak about what is or is not "called for" since Robert Snow and others say some of the most HORRIFIC things about reformation theology and you NEVER lambaste them.

I don't mind you expressing your offense- but don't come in riding a high horse as if your primary concern is that brothers are treated properly when the only brothers you really care for are those who ascribe to this new theology that you hold to.

Luke, I will comment whenever I so choose. What are you going to do about it? Threaten to beat me up as you have in past threads with others?

 

[Luke2427]

In what way is his character negatively impacted by this idea of randomness?
Why does randomness bother you so much? Can't God do anything, anyway he wants? Can I presume to tell God how he must have acted and how he must act?

Two things:

1- Scripture is clear that NOTHING happens randomly but rather that God has ordained EVERYTHING and is in complete control of every single event bringing ALL things to pass according to his will.

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof [is] of the LORD.

Not even the roll of the dice is random.

Romans 11:36 "For of him and through Him and to Him are ALL THINGS..."

2- The idea that God allows some things to happen by chance means that God allows something to happen beyond his control. These who espouse this new nameless theology try to rectify this by saying, "God is SO sovereign that he can allow things to happen outside of his control." Of course that is absurd. It is like saying, "Jim is SO dry that he is covered in wet spots." This idea pretends that something at all can EVER happen apart from the power of God or that anything that ever happens is not an ultimate result of his eternal plan that he set in motion when he built the universe. It is ridiculous.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke, I will comment whenever I so choose. What are you going to do about it? Threaten to beat me up as you have in past threads with others?

I don't care what you do, quantum. I just simply pointed out that if you would restrict yourself to justice and equity and ethical behavior then you must abandon this high horse reproving of Calvinists for saying no worse things than these who have no nameable theology while you NEVER reprimand them. It makes you hypocritical in your high horse rebukes.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Thank you Crabtownboy

Comments such as "calls into question His Holy character" and "God dishonoring junk" are totally and completely uncalled for.

And I am waiting for an answer. Without an answer I do not know what ball park we are in.

So, again ... in what way does randomness call God's character into question?

What is God's character that it can be called into question?

How does randomness dishonor God?

 

[webdog]

Very interesting and enlightening. As usual your insight is stimulating. Your knowledge of these things obviously greatly exceeds mine and I appreciate you sharing it- sincerely.

I want to pin you down on a position here, though.

Are there things that happen that God did not predetermine in your view?

So it's "absurd" when it comes from a non cal...but it is "interesting and enlightening" when it comes from a fellow DoG'er? Is this clear bias randomness, or decreed (depending if we ever get a definition of the latter from you)?

We need to know what you mean by predetermine, as in decree.

 

[Luke2427]

And I am waiting for an answer. Without an answer I do not know what ball park we are in.

So, again ... in what way does randomness call God's character into question?

What is God's character that it can be called into question?

How does randomness dishonor God?

Your waiting is not necessary. It has already been addressed in post 27.

 

[quantumfaith]

And I am waiting for an answer. Without an answer I do not know what ball park we are in.

So, again ... in what way does randomness call God's character into question?

What is God's character that it can be called into question?

How does randomness dishonor God?

Well Crabtown boy, I don't see how "randomness" in any way calls into question God's character, unless of course one simply denies God altogether, but alas, that is another thread (at least in my high horse) perspective.

 

[Luke2427]

So it's "absurd" when it comes from a non cal...but it is "interesting and enlightening" when it comes from a fellow DoG'er? Is this clear bias randomness, or decreed (depending if we ever get a definition of the latter from you)?

We need to know what you mean by predetermine, as in decree.

His post was insightful. I am still waiting for one of such quality to come from one of you guys who have no nameable theology. When it does, I will compliment it.

Have you applied this same type of rebuke to quantum for not criticizing the attacks of nameless theology folks while riding his high horse slam over as many Calvinists as he can?

Surely you are consistent, right?

 

[Crabtownboy]

The idea that God allows some things to happen by chance means that God allows something to happen beyond his control. These who espouse this new nameless theology try to rectify this by saying, "God is SO sovereign that he can allow things to happen outside of his control."

From a human viewpoint it may seem to be out of God's control. Don't limit God to human understanding. If God allows events to happen by chance it only means he allows it ... this does not mean he is not in control. I believe you are forgetting God's permissive will.

 

[Van]

Hi Luke, yes these examples demonstrate to my satisfication that exhaustive determinism is a mistaken view of scripture. There are several verses that demonstrate things happen by chance, rather than being predetermined. There are several passages that indicate we make choices, rather than non-choices. And there are several passages where God intervenes to bring about what He desires, which would not happen if all circumstance was predetermined. So yes, that is all I have. God's word against the traditions of men.

 

[webdog]

His post was insightful. I am still waiting for one of such quality to come from one of you guys who have no nameable theology. When it does, I will compliment it.

His post was consistent with what everyone else was saying, but you are too narrow minded or blind to ever glean any kind of truth from a non cal. It is also humorous that you throw around the "nameless theology" tag so loosely when you hold to "nameless" definitions of simple terms and phrases.

Have you applied this same type of rebuke to quantum for not criticizing the attacks of nameless theology folks while riding his high horse slam over as many Calvinists as he can?

Ah, the the Luke MO of evade, obfuscate, and misdirect the accusation back to the one making it, which hold the feel of a second grader saying "nuh uh, you are"

Saurely you are consistent, right?

As consistent as you failing to define a simple word for us.

 

[Luke2427]

From a human viewpoint it may seem to be out of God's control. Don't limit God to human understanding. If God allows events to happen by chance it only means he allows it ... this does not mean he is not in control. I believe you are forgetting God's permissive will.

I am not- this is what you guys with no nameable theology are doing.

You have no Bible for this unorthodox idea that God has created a world in which BILLIONS of events happen at random every day and ignore the fact that the Bible EXPLICITLY states that God is bringing to pass EVERY event according to his will- no exceptions.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I am not- this is what you guys with no nameable theology are doing.

You have no Bible for this unorthodox idea that God has created a world in which BILLIONS of events happen at random every day and ignore the fact that the Bible EXPLICITLY states that God is bringing to pass EVERY event according to his will- no exceptions.

I don't believe I have said if I support randomness or not. But I do find it an interesting philosophical topic. Just because a person asks questions and expects answers does not mean their support or do not support the idea. It does mean they are looking for answers or at least rational explanations.

You are letting your emotions get in the way of your replies.

Are you saying it is impossible for God to let something happen randomly, that is exercise his permissive will? There is that which is called God's perfect will and then then is God's permissive will.

Your proof texts in themselves mean little. We can prove just about anything we want by selective picking scripture.

Now if this is too hot for you to answer calmly and reasonably maybe the thread should be dropped. What say?

 

[webdog]

Define random for us, Luke...in your OWN words.

 

[Luke2427]

His post was consistent with what everyone else was saying, but you are too narrow minded or blind to ever glean any kind of truth from a non cal. It is also humorous that you throw around the "nameless theology" tag so loosely when you hold to "nameless" definitions of simple terms and phrases.
Ah, the the Luke MO of evade, obfuscate, and misdirect the accusation back to the one making it, which hold the feel of a second grader saying "nuh uh, you are"
As consistent as you failing to define a simple word for us.

I have defined it multiple times.

Everything else you said is so bogus it is not worth responding to.