Pastor Imposes "Morals Clause" on Choir

And the husband is to be like Christ to the church ... which means he does not do what he may really want to do if there is something better for the family. The husband must always put their needs before his own.

 

and this is relevant, how?

 

That is a completely ignorant representation of the egalitarian position. Just because we differ on this issue does not mean we are dishonest or explaining something away.

The "Scripture is pretty clear" argument is really just a tactic for making oneself look good in a discussion or debate. It automatically places the others as being not only in the wrong, but contrary to the will of God.

And, plus, the Bible is only clear that in some select places, women were not supposed to push the envelope for the greater good of the Kingdom.

And, by the way, if she is the pastor, then no amount of base interpretive footwork can take the title away. She is the pastor.

 

Hmmm...I think you should repent of your sin and stop speaking to other Christians in a spiteful, sarcastic and pejorative way.

See, that probably doesn't sit well with you. But it's no more offensive and over-the-line than what you said.

 

Let's see, you have sent me multiple IMs begging me to stop calling you a liberal and to stop hurting your feelings. You continually say that I should stop speaking to other Christians in certain ways. Since that time I have basically ignored you. Also since that time you have made it a habit to reply to posts of mine (that were not directed to you) and attempt to argue with me.

You can't have it both ways jaigner. Either you want me to leave you alone or you want to argue. Decide which you'd like to do. If arguing is what you prefer, let by all means we can argue. If not, then stop stalking me.

 

The PMs were tactfully worded messages imploring you to stop speaking harshly and completely without any Christian charity or concern. It was not because you were "hurting my feelings."

I'm not asking you to stop arguing or debating. That's all fine and good. I'm asking you to stop demeaning and debasing other Christians while you do so. And if you do go over the line, to have the decency to apologize for it.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you (and many of those people have conservative and evangelical higher education and training and have learned the basics of biblical exegesis and interpretation), does not mean they are a heathen or that they somehow don't love Jesus like you do.

If you were to respond in love, even in disagreement, you might find there is still plenty to learn from these other believers.

 

Same here! I'm a nursery working, and my husband and I are both in choir. We signed a covenant when we joined and we had no problem with it. Its basically upholding higher christian standards for those in ministry (especially because they are usually watched more by those who do and do not work in ministry)..

I agree there's nothing wrong with the covenant, and I dont agree with a female "pastor" either. There's no picking and choosing on what to and what not to obey in the bible.

 

It's a different interpretation - and one that is defended well. I'm sure there have been some who have "picked and chosen" what to obey, but evangelicals with this position are not among them. This is where we've been led.

 

AMEN! But I do agree that all groups have rules, and if you don't like the rules, don't be part of the group. End of sentence.

 

I disagree from the standpoint that our ministries are outreach platforms. How can we reach out to lost people with the gospel and love of Christ with this kind of thing? I have no problem with lost people being a part of our choir or music ministry. It's a great way to reach some people that will never be reached any other way. These people aren't soloists or leaders, they're simply participating just as the people in the pew participate.

 

There have to be standards, even for the choir.

I say that knowing of affairs that started in the choir, practicing duets.

Gay, straight, oblong, square, or whatever describes your temptation to sin, either forgo that sin or don't ask to serve.

 

I agree in principle. You don't want to have a non-believer teaching Sunday School, watching the nursery, etc.

However, there may be other situations where someone who is searching - but not yet a believer - may be involved with ministry. Church work days, building homes for habitat, feeding the homeless, etc. are all examples where non-believers would be welcome to join in --- and thus, see the love of Christ being shown to those in need.

Personally, I don't see this as an either/or situation -- just another situation where discernment is needed.

 

Interesting situation. I know a physician (non-believer) who accompanied his wife (an RN, who was a believer) on medical mission trips to Africa. For years, he went with her simply as a doctor doing good work for others. Now, they both go together sharing God's love and using their medical skills as short term medical missionaries. You never know...