Choice 'A' or Choice 'A', Which will it be?

I don't know if you agree with Iconoclast, but how did he handle my swimming pool analogy? He compared a spiritually dead person to a lifeless body floating face down in the pool.

If I threw a life perserver to this floating lifeless person, could he choose to take hold of it? NO.

Could he refuse the life preserver? NO!

You just don't get it, you cannot have choice without the REAL ABILITY to both accept or refuse God's grace.

Calvinism redefines words. Choice means the ABILITY to choose between at least two available options. If you do not have at least two available options you cannot have choice, and if you do not have the real ability to choose either of these options you do not have choice.

You cannot understand this because you have been taught to believe an illogical impossibility.

This is why the debate never ends, you cannot convince someone who is illogical with logic.

 

Choosing God or self

Not sure what you are asking

a choice is where there are two or more options and I choose one of them. So for instance, the gospel is presented. A person has a choice to reject or believe.

 

An analogy is an analogy. You don't take every part of the analogy(or it would just be the same thing).

no, a choice is having two options.

You have the choice to reject or accept the gospel.

There is no reason to be unkind.

 

Ok, I approach a dead person and say you can have chicken for dinner tonight, or you can have steak for dinner tonight, which do you choose?

I have presented two options to this dead person, so according to your view he has a choice.

Can that dead person choose?

 

physically dead doesn't equal spiritually dead. a spiritually dead person CAN make choices and DOES have a WILL! I wonder how many times I must say that.

 

God enables a sinner to do what he cannot do...not logical,but supernatural and biblical.....rise up and walk,,,,stretch forth your hand

The nonsense will end when you actually believe some of the verses offered to you,rather than looking to logic,and human wisdom for truth.

 

It is better to look to scripture for these answers

We are to make our calling and election sure.....that presupposes the elect believe in both election and assurance of salvation.
That illogical calvinist Peter taught this.

I believe Jesus here.

 

Jesus could only heal these persons if they FIRST believed.

Mk 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Why was Jesus not able to perform any mighty works here? It is explained in the next verse.

Mk 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages teaching.

Jesus could not do any mighty works because of the people's unbelief. And notice he marvelled at their unbelief. If a person can only have faith if God regenerates them, why would he be surprised?

We see the father of the possessed boy in chapter 9.

Mk 9:22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. 23 Jesus said unto him, IF THOU CANST BELIEVE, ALL THING ARE POSSIBLE TO HIM THAT BELIEVETH.

This man questioned Jesus's ability, but Jesus said the issue is whether he the father could believe. If he could believe, then it was possible to heal his son, if he could not believe, then Jesus could not heal his son.

Jesus could not heal a person unless they first believed.

 

really.....
explain this one then..am interested to see how this matches your idea!

Jesus used signs to teach lessons....how did lazarus believe, while he was dead?
you said he could not be healed unless he believed first,correct??

or was he regenerated first,and enabled to hear the command and live?

 

Aaron...

Actually...sometimes calvinists are true to the scriptures, but other times they are in great error. The scriptures are 100% true and without error. Calvins Institutes are not scripture, so they are NOT inerrant as the scriptures are.

Really?

I was in my natural state, lost an undone, and I chose life. I decided at a point in time to repent, and embrace Christ by faith alone. And millions of others would say the same thing.

And as a result my life was revolutionized for the better from that day forword.

I made a choice.

You are a little off with that.

Its actually...

"A man who chooses Christ, will be eternally born of God."

 

No, you say an unregenerate man is utterly enslaved by his own nature and fallen will and CANNOT choose God unless God regenerates him, giving him a will that can choose God.

You say he is FREE to choose AND at the same time you say he is a SLAVE and cannot choose. This is a contradiction and cannot be true.

If he is free he can actually choose God, if he is enslaved he cannot. He must be one or the other, he cannot be both at the same time as you falsely believe.

Why can't you see the obvious contradiction in your view?

 

Jesus taught clearly on this very topic.without as you like to say,contradiction;

They did not know they were bound by sin, Jesus explained that only those the Son makes free, are free.....
Do you see it now....Jesus did not say....it is up to you to accept me, or decide, or choose...as you men say all the time...Jesus said they were slaves to sin, bound
His word found no place in them....

 

Well, if you read the scriptures you would know Lazarus was the brother of Martha and Mary, both believers, and that Jesus told his disciples that "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth" in John 11:11. Lazarus was a believer.

 

Yes he was....but you said he had to believe or have faith before healing could take place, that God cannot heal without belief..
How did he believe Jesus would call him forth to be healed that day,when he was dead?

also see post 54

 

Read it again, Jesus did not say a person must sin because they are a servant of sin, he said whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. You teach exactly opposite of what Jesus taught.

Which comes first, does a person start taking drugs because they are a drug addict, or does a person become a drug addict by first taking drugs?

 

commits =practice
servant equals slave

stop trying to weasel out,read the whole passage

33They answered him, `Seed of Abraham we are; and to no one have we been servants at any time; how dost thou say -- Ye shall become free?'

34Jesus answered them, `Verily, verily, I say to you -- Every one who is committing sin, is a servant of the sin,
35and the servant doth not remain in the house -- to the age, the son doth remain -- to the age;

36if then the son may make you free, in reality ye shall be free.

 

The same way he will call all believers out of the grave. Just because you die does not mean you cannot believe, that is the point I have been trying to get across to you.

Dead folks can hear Jesus whether they died saved or not, how do you think Jesus will call the lost out of their graves for the resurrection of damnation?

This is what I have been trying to show you, the spiritually dead have the ability to hear Jesus. The spiritually dead who are physically alive can also believe Jesus, and if they do they shall live (Jn 5:25).

 

What comes first is all men are born dead in sin and a servant of sin...then they commit or practice sin, unless and until Jesus sets them free