My Position on the Fourth Commandment

GE:

And Dr Walter never insults nobody.....

I welcome insults.

They are ALWAYS elicited by objections that cannot be answered.

However,

I say it again – and for the last time as I have finished with this aspect or ‘subject’ of the conversation if for its confusion it can be called a ‘subject’ (What a ridiculous supposition creation began with a rest-day….),

The Genesis-recording of or “in” the “creation”, “provides” and “applies” and “proves”, _the_ “six working days” that God first created and then created on, “that”, without EVER having been “preceded” “by a Sabbath”, are “only”, “CONCLUDED”, by “The Day-The-Seventh-Day” in Genesis 2, and by “The Day-The-Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD GOD” in the Fourth Commandment, and afterwards, after it thus "IS BEGUN", for believers (only), CONTINUES ad infinitum.

 

GE:

It is not WRITTEN: "Three days in the ground".

"Three days in the ground" is NOT, "just as He said".

Jesus said - extracted from context -, "three days in the HEART, of the earth".

"Three days in the ground" is literal language which means the same as 'three days in the GRAVE'.

"three days in the HEART of the earth" is figurative language, meaning something else than the literal words, "heart", or, "earth".

"three days in the HEART, of the earth" has therefore, spiritual meaning, that Christ AS IF He were "under the foundations of the mountains of the sea", "AS the prophet JONAS WAS", SUFFERED THE PANGS OF DEATH AND OF DYING DEATH, LIVE AND ALIVE.

Jesus ENTERED into this the first day of his final sacrificing of his LIFE here in the Scriptures:
Mark14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1-30.

The "MIDDLE-DAY" so called in the Scriptures, started, here:
Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50 John 19:31,38,
and, "BEGAN ENDING MID-AFTERNOON THE SABBATH DRAWING NEAR", here:
Luke 23:54 John 19:42.

And "the third day Christ rose from the dead according to the Scriptures", began, here:
Luke 23:56b,
and,
"BEGAN ENDING MID-AFTERNOON THE First Day of the week DRAWING NEAR", here:
Matthew 28:1,
and "had gone through", here:
Mark 16:1.

These are ALL and EVERY times and days WRITTEN with reference to the "three days" WITHIN WHICH, Jesus would like the prophet Jonas have suffered the "three days thick darkness", "plague (that) was upon Him", the 'plague' of the Exodus and the death of the First Born and Only Begotten Son of God, on the fourteenth, fifteenth and sixteenth days of the First Month God commanded must be for The People of God their First Month.

 

But let us please begin a new thread to discuss this matter?!

 

We agree, and I know you along with me wish every Christian would believe in a 72-hour confinement in the earth, rather than what a tradition of man wants them to believe. And believing this I see we again agree to what Luke says. A Saturday coming from the dead is hours before 3 am on the first day of the week.

What will you do with verse 7? "Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again."

 

It is difficult to disagree with you here, for many years I too saw Matthew 12:40 referring only to Sheol/Hades; however when we investigate deeply into this verse we find Jesus was also specifically referring to the ground under our feet. Strong's Greek "ge" can mean "Ground", and Heart (Greek "kardia") broken heart.

Look at the verse again. (Strong's) Matthew 12:40, " |5618| even as |1063| For |2258| was |2495| Jonah |1722| in |3588| the |2836| belly |3588| of the |2785| huge fish |9999| {for} |5140| three |2250| days |2532| and |5140| three |3571| nights, |3779| so |2071| will be |3588| the |5207| Son |3588| of |0444| Man |1722| in |3588| the |2588| heart |3588| of the |1093| earth |9999| {for} |5140| three |2250| days |2532| and |5140| three |3571| nights"

Matthew 27:60 (KJV) reads, "And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed."
The Rock was broken open by hand, with pick probably, and chisels. Jesus was laid in the heart of the Rock, on the Ground in the Tomb. A stone sealed Him in. Jonah was sealed inside the special New Fish.

Three days, and three nights Johan's body was sealed inside the Fish, and three days, and three nights Jesus' body was sealed in the Tomb, while He lay on the ground.

I am not saying this cannot have a double meaning, for it does, but to not contradict all other scripture we must make this verse in Matthew mean what it says.

He arose on the Third (3rd) day, which was the seventh day of the week, on the regular Sabbath. How do we know this? If we keep reading in Matthew 27, we come to verse 61, and 62. "And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
62. Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate". The Next day is Nisan 15, the God appointed High Sabbath Day. Nisan 15, every year follows Nisan 14. We are told He was slaughtered on Nissan 14, which can only be on a Wednesday.

Would this not lend itself to believing that the Word of God died? I personally find He is the Light to the Gentile, whose flame was, is, and will always be. Is Paradise Thick Darkness?

 

Then you are saying a Thursday Nisan 14th Passover? If so you will wind up on a Monday emerging from the Tomb, if we stay with 72-hour confinement.

I have to use the premise of I find in scripture. Jesus' body had to be placed inside the Tomb by using Israel's time keeping, which I know you will agree with. About 5:5999 PM, their time, the body of Jesus had to be in the Tomb, and the stone rolled into place. This is Nisan 14, a Wednesday. Beginning at 6 pm Thursday no Jew could do any manual work such as this for it is now Nisan 15, the High Sabbath. These seven days of unleavened bread begins.

The required time for Jesus' confinement ended on that Sabbath day of Nisan 17, and His Body now again alive having connected with His Soul, and Spirit was not found in the Tomb on that Sunday morn of Nisan 18th.

In the ground for 3 days, and three nights, He arose on the fourth (4th) day as we are told in Matthew 27:63, "Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. "

I'm stopping here so contemplation can begin on the four (days) that are necessary to understand scripture that we must bring together to remove any contradictions.

My wife and I have most of our hours planned for the next 48 hours, but I believe I may be able to furnish scripture to show understanding of "two of them went that same day." It will agree with your truth of Sunday, but not inside of the seventy-two (72) hours, of which you make reference.

I believe great liberty of man has been taken to lead us to a Friday Crucifixion, which we agree is error. His Word gives us truth, and not interpretations made by man. We know the time of His spirit, and soul leaving the Body. Scripture tells us His Body must also be sealed into the Tomb on the same day that His Soul and Spirit departed. This will keep truth with Jonas.

 

You furnished The evidence in the verses you presented, of what they were talking about, to wit Luke 24:1, "¶ Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them." This is Sunday, when the ladies arrived at the Tomb. This I believe we agree on.

13"¶ And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs."This is Sunday when these two dispels were on their way Emmaus. This I believe we agree on.

21 "But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done." I believe what this verse says.

22 "Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;". This agrees, and confirms what verse 1 above says. This is what they are talking about, and I again agree with you.

But what I do not agree with you on is Thursday placement of His Body into the Tomb on the ground, and sealed in. Please understand what I am saying, and that is I believe what Jesus said in Matthew (Strongs) 12:40, "|5618| even as |1063| For |2258| was |2495| Jonah
|1722| in |3588| the |2836| belly |3588| of the |2785| huge fish |9999| {for}
|5140| three |2250| days |2532| and |5140| three |3571| nights, |3779| so |2071| will be |3588| the |5207| Son |3588| of |0444| Man |1722| in |3588| the |2588| heart
|3588| of the |1093| earth |9999| {for} |5140| three |2250| days |2532| and
|5140| three |3571| nights". Most will agree the hermeneutics here are correct, and "ge" has a meaning of ground. So Jesus was laid in the ground in the heart of the Stone hewed out by Joseph.

What Jesus says is not three nights, and three days in the ground, but three days, and three nights. At the beginning of the Bible we see in Genesis what Determined the way His people would determine when their full day started, (NAS) Genesis 1:5, "God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day." I believe you will agree their day begins at Twilight, or about 6 pm.


Leviticus 23:4-7, "These are the appointed times of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them.
5. 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the LORD'S Passover.
6. 'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.
7. 'On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work." We see here Jesus used HIS TIME, and not mans time. His day begins with the ending of the previous day which ends at about 6 pm our time.


Deuteronomy 21:2w-23,"If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree,
23. his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance."


Scripture tells us He was put on the tree on the Preparation day of Nisan 14, body dead at 3PM Nisan 14, had to be taken off the tree the same day. He had to be on the Ground in the Tomb (and sealed in) on that DAY of Nisan 14, for Joseph and Nicodemus would never do this type work on what God said they had better not do. They went on God's time, and not mans.

God is a God of division, and will bring all back together again. In the mean time we are to attempt to understand what Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John say about this matter. We are ourselves to study to make ourselves approved of God. We must bring together the four Gospels in our Bible, to get the complete picture. We must believe God in the Beginning.

I stand with God here, and not the testimony of man, and their theology. The sacrifice is mad ready on Nisan 14. It cannot remain on the Tree until Nisan 15. It must be Sealed In on The Same Day.

Do the math. It will take time and understanding. Wednesday just as it just starts to be Twilight, is the first day (three Days and then three nights). Thursday is the High Sabbath, which is Nisan 15. Jesus said day and night, so this means He starts His complete confinement on the end of the First day (just as He says), and the third day as it ends, completes the 72 hours required to finish the complete three says.

 

GE:

No, Dr Walter, you will never change your ideas because you have grown so attached to them you love them more than life itself. Because you think they are shining bright and put you in the spotlight of fame and honour.

But they are false.

Like your insistence that Jesus rose on Sunday morning, regardless of exactly what time of morning. He not at all rose on Sunday morning.

And your referring to Mark 16:9 for your false claim, is another false 'application' of that Scripture.

I have challenged you BEFORE, OFTEN, that Mark 16:9 does not even contain such a Predicative Indicative word as the Verb, "He was raised", or, "he rose".

EVERY TIME YOU 'apply' those VERB-words, Dr Walter, allegedly from Mark 16:9, I am telling you in your face, before everyone reading these pages: Dr Walter, YOU ARE A LIAR!!!

 

"God FINISHED on the Day The Seventh Day". That is 'WRITTEN'.

"God by the EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER WHICH HE WORKED", "FINISHED". God could not by any lesser work of his, have "finished"!
Therefore "God by the EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER WHICH HE WORKED", "FINISHED", "_ALL_ his works", "WHEN HE RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD" "on the Day the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD".

That, every word, and every thought and every truth of it and in it, is what is "WRITTEN" and is "ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES THE THIRD DAY"!

Therefore, Dr Walter, your audacity, that Jesus rose on the First Day of the week is in "perfect harmony with all scriptures" is - again - as false as my wife's eyelashes are.

 

GE:

Patience, o patience !

You do not realise what you are saying and by saying acknowledge YOURSELF, dear poor Dr Walter......

You emphasize

1) "If Sunday is the "third day since" he was crucified and he was walking with them that very Sunday then obviously if you count backwards Morning and evenings in reverse you will end up precisely during the DAY time of Thursday PRIOR to 6 pm ..............."

Absolutely right!

Just remember, you cannot add your little addition, however shrewdly, "...he was placed in the grave" .... no, no, NO! Luke makes NO mention of the Burial, with very good reason, that the disciples at that stage, "prior to 6 pm" did not even KNOW that Joseph would still bury Him (next day).

 

GE:

2)

This is all wrong, because you split up the days into first halves and last halves that do not belong to any of THE, "three days", "according to the Scriptures".

"3rd evening - 6am Sunday morning back to 6pm Saturday evening" is NOT the "3rd evening" --- it is a FOURTH evening which belonged to the seventeenth day of the First Month.


“3rd day - 6pm Saturday Evening back to Saturday morning 6am”
--- more precise:
‘3rd day - 6pm Saturday sunset back to Saturday sunrise 6am’
“THE third day ROSE again!” Abib 16 “Sabbath’s there was a great earthquake….” Matthew 28:1.

“2nd evening - 6am Saturday morning back to 6pm Friday night”
--- FALSE! Should be:
‘THIRD NIGHT - 6am Saturday sunrise back to 6pm Friday sunset’.

You are AGAINST the Scriptures, confusing by identifying “today since these things happened the third day” of Luke 24:21 and “the third according to the Scriptures” on which Christ rose from the dead! It is mean and unscrupulous deceit and fraud!


“2nd day - 6pm Friday night back to 6am Friday morning”
--- more precise:
‘2nd day - 6pm Friday sunset back to 6am Friday sunrise’

“1st evening - 6am Friday morning back to 6pm Thursday night”
--- FALSE altogether! Should be:
‘SECOND NIGHT – 6am Friday sunrise back to 6pm Thursday sunset’.
“The In-the-bone-of-day-Day” on which “that which remained” had to be assimilated again with corruptibility, “eaten” and “burned”, i.e., be “BURIED”. Abib 15 “the Sixth Day (of the week)”.

You unabashed and unashamed ignore and defy the Scriptures Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38 Luke 23:50, as, Mark14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,31, which is why you don’t account at all for the real “first, first day WHEN THEY KILLED the passover”!

Horrific hermeneutics and flabbergasting exegesis yours! Simply UNBELIEVABLE!

 

GE:

Re:
Dr Walter,
“It is also impossible that Christ intended that three days and three nights demand 72 full hours as that would make him FOUR nights in the tomb instead of three if he were buried prior to 6pm our Wedneday.”

Yes, Christ did not “intend that three days and three nights demand 72 full hours”; three days and three nights demand 72 full hours of themselves.

But what DW does not think of, is that the “three days” “according to the Scriptures” which Jesus “intended”, “demanded” the “three days thick darkness” of “the plague (that) was upon Him” in their God-given and therefore eschatological imperative WHOLENESS AND FULLNESS: THESE, “three days” of having been “in the heart of the earth” AS SPIRITUALLY AS TRULY, “three days and three nights” “on the THIRD day” _OF WHICH_ “Christ rose from the dead again”.

Almost granted, as Dr Walter notices, “that would make him FOUR nights in the tomb instead of three if he were buried prior to 6pm our Wedneday”, because although it is not “nights”, but ‘days’ as a ‘day is represented by the actual moment of the event that marks it the specific ‘day’. For indeed, while He rose from the dead “In the Sabbath’s mid-afternoon as it began to dawn towards the First day of the week”, were Jesus crucified as well as buried before sunset on a Wednesday, He would have been 1) “in the heart of the earth” for four ‘days’, and 2) “in the tomb” in the earth, for three “nights”.


Re:
Dr Walter,
“…… you cannot calculate what days the 14th of Nisan fell on unless you know the precise year this occurred. You cannot know the precise year this occurred unless you know the precise year he was born”

Which is ungrounded and unnecessary speculation.

We do know “what day) the 14th of Nisan fell on” because we know on what day of the week Jesus “our Passover” and “Lamb of God” was sacrificed on, and Luke 24:1 and 21 gives us all the information we needed to see that Sunday was “the third day since these things” OF JESUS’ CRUCIFIXION, “happened”, like Dr Walter himself concluded from these words of Luke, “If Sunday is the "third day since" he was crucified and he was walking with them that very Sunday then obviously if you count backwards Morning and evenings in reverse you will end up precisely during the DAY time of Thursday PRIOR to 6 pm ...”

So what for does one need to “know the precise year this occurred”?
Or why must one “know the precise year this occurred unless you know the precise year he was born”?
It’s ridiculous, actually, quite comical.

 

GE:
Dr Walter,
“Sunday was the third day SINCE he was crucified and he was already risen prior to walking with them…”

Yes, that’s what Luke has said…

Now from what do you find justification to conclude,
“… and therefore he had to arise after 6 pm Saturday night and precisely between 3am to 6am as Mark explicitly states this is when he arose from the grave by the use of "proii" which is a technical term for the fourth watch of the night and so used by Christ Himself in Mark 13”?

From your thumb!

“If Sunday is the "third day since" he was crucified and he was walking with them that very Sunday then obviously if you count backwards Morning and evenings in reverse you will end up precisely during the DAY time of Thursday PRIOR to 6 pm ...” THAT JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED AND DIED! NOT BURIED!!

And that gives you NO right to conclude, “… and therefore he had to arise after 6 pm Saturday night and precisely between 3am to 6am”. Which in itself is also a ridiculous self-contradicting statement, but be that as it may, for it is an even worse attempt at counting. For if Sunday is the ‘third day since’ He was crucified and He was walking with them that very Sunday then obviously if you count backwards,

“the First Day of the week” (Sunday) was “the third day since” He was “delivered to be crucified” and had died;

“the Sabbath” (Saturday) was the second “day since” He was “delivered to be crucified” and had died;

“the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath” (Friday) was the first “day since” He was “delivered to be crucified” and had died;

“the Preparation of the Passover” (Thursday) was THE “day” THAT, He was “delivered to be crucified”, was in fact crucified, and had died on!

And therefore He had to arise exactly as recorded in Matthew 28:1 "When suddenly there was a great earthquake SABBATH'S MID-AFTERNOON AS IT BEGAN TO DAWN TOWARDS the First Day of the week",

and as was PROPHESIED since the beginning of the creation that "God the Seventh Day from ALL his works RESTED" in and through Jesus Christ "by the exceeding greatness of his power which God worked when He raised Christ from the dead."