Ergun Caner leaves Liberty for Arlington Baptist College

[Siberian]

I thought this an interesting development: http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6405/53/

The School's president said that Caner, "shares the values that I have... of a godly example."

Has Caner ever repented publicly for his public fabrications?

 

[StefanM]

As a Liberty alum, I'm glad that he is no longer employed by LU. I don't wish him ill, but I am glad that LU can put this issue in the past.

 

[PilgrimPastor]

As a Liberty alum, I'm glad that he is no longer employed by LU. I don't wish him ill, but I am glad that LU can put this issue in the past.

I concur. I am in the process of "re-learning" all of my material with regard to Islam. I had him for multiple apologetic / contemporary theology courses online and I feel cheated to say the least.

Interestingly, much of his information (historical factual) was accurate; probably because he learned it the same way that I have, not through personal experience to the degree he once claimed.

We are lacking leadership in this country in general and in the church specifically. I would also really like to see a public repentance rather than elusiveness.

 

[preachinjesus]

There is something deeply ironic about him leaving Liberty and going to the school started by J Frank Norris.

The man is discredited and has done damage to the Church. I have yet to hear him publicly apologize for his dishonesty and illegitimate scholarship.

As an alumnus of LU I'm happy he's gone.

 

[Siberian]

There is something deeply ironic about him leaving Liberty and going to the school started by J Frank Norris.

The man is discredited and has done damage to the Church. I have yet to hear him publicly apologize for his dishonesty and illegitimate scholarship.

As an alumnus of LU I'm happy he's gone.

Ironic indeed...

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ironic indeed...

Pack your hoodie up & go....dont let the door hit you on the way out!:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Baptist Believer]

I thought this an interesting development: http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6405/53/

The School's president said that Caner, "shares the values that I have... of a godly example."

Has Caner ever repented publicly for his public fabrications?

I think it is telling that he is going to Arlington Baptist College and endorsing the legacy of J. Frank Norris.

Public repentance would have been much better. I think he could have been restored on a long-term basis if he had made a public apology and worked through these issues with an accountability group.

When I was more widely-traveled in my former Southern Baptist world, I would hear Baptist preachers in various places tell alleged first-person stories of unusual encounters they had with others (for some reason, many of them occurred while they were on a plane) from the pulpit. Unless there was, for instance, a self-professed witch endlessly flying commercial flights to and from Baptist conventions/meetings, telling every pastor they met that they were "praying for the moral failure" of "every pastor in America," then there are a whole bunch of Baptist preachers out there telling stories that aren't true.

And one of the many issues I have with Tony Campolo is that a number of the stories in his most famous sermons are told as first-person experiences, but they are not. Years before he would say, "permit me to tell this story in the first person" before he began. I didn't care for that practice very much, but at least it is honest. I haven't heard him give that disclaimer in years.

We need to have integrity in the ministry. There is no excuse for lying from the pulpit. I can understand how it happens, how the ego craves attention and adulation, and how zeal can easily turn to embellishment, and the attention of your audience can make you want to live up to their expectations, even if you have to stretch the truth. But once you start down that road, you begin destroying your integrity and hurting those who trust you.

Unless Caner publicly repents, I don't think he upholds a "godly example."

“Therefore,” declares the LORD, “I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me." - Jeremiah 23:30 NIV

 

[TCGreek]

Liberty is better off.

 

[Crucified in Christ]

Now Caner can claim to have been endorsed by D.L. Moody....

And he will actually be telling the truth... ;-)



I am sure that Liberty is happy to see him leave.

 

[StefanM]

Now Caner can claim to have been endorsed by D.L. Moody....

And he will actually be telling the truth... ;-)



I am sure that Liberty is happy to see him leave.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were the plan all along. LU may have basically offered him a one-year contract to tide him over with the understanding that he would attempt to find another job in that time frame.

 

[Siberian]

This is the best I could find as far as a response from Caner goes - and it is anything but an apology. Sept 25. 2010

Read it at The News & Advance

Caner will fit right in to his new post, following the likes of Norris.

 

[Baptist Believer]

This is the best I could find as far as a response from Caner goes - and it is anything but an apology.

Wow.

Here's a choice quote:

“Every pastor in America, ask them if you can go through 200-odd hours of your sermons. Would they find where you said your kids’ names wrong or dates wrong? Yeah, of course. You just smile and move on.”

I've never forgotten or misstated the year of my conversion (June 1979), where I first decided to be a disciple of Jesus (a coffee shop ministry called "The Vine" in Spring, Texas) or the person who was preaching when the gospel message became clear to me (Joe Arms). And I only visited "The Vine" once and only heard Joe Arms preach one time and have had no other contact with him or his ministry.

One could go through everything I ever wrote and all of the hundreds of hours of sermons I have preached and find an very strong consistency in my message, especially as it relates to my testimony of God's mercy in my life.

Granted, there might be an occasional misstatement in there somewhere, or something not completely clarified, but that would be an isolated incident, not a pattern of consistent behavior... and frankly, I'm not even sure that would be there.

And I think that most people on BaptistBoard could say exactly the same thing.

Certainly there are a lot of liars standing in pulpits every Sunday, especially those who are trying to have dramatic testimonies to attract crowds, but Caner is essentially called EVERY pastor a liar like him, and that's inexcusable.

There is something terribly wrong with Caner.

 

[Siberian]

Wow.

Here's a choice quote:

“Every pastor in America, ask them if you can go through 200-odd hours of your sermons. Would they find where you said your kids’ names wrong or dates wrong? Yeah, of course. You just smile and move on.”

I've never forgotten or misstated the year of my conversion (June 1979), where I first decided to be a disciple of Jesus (a coffee shop ministry called "The Vine" in Spring, Texas) or the person who was preaching when the gospel message became clear to me (Joe Arms). And I only visited "The Vine" once and only heard Joe Arms preach one time and have had no other contact with him or his ministry.

One could go through everything I ever wrote and all of the hundreds of hours of sermons I have preached and find an very strong consistency in my message, especially as it relates to my testimony of God's mercy in my life.

Granted, there might be an occasional misstatement in there somewhere, or something not completely clarified, but that would be an isolated incident, not a pattern of consistent behavior... and frankly, I'm not even sure that would be there.

And I think that most people on BaptistBoard could say exactly the same thing.

Certainly there are a lot of liars standing in pulpits every Sunday, especially those who are trying to have dramatic testimonies to attract crowds, but Caner is essentially called EVERY pastor a liar like him, and that's inexcusable.

There is something terribly wrong with Caner.

The sad thing is that that distinction (between innocent pulpit mistakes and habitual and intentional deception) seems to be lost on Caner - he might not even realize how off he is. In one un-edited sermon, I heard Caner drone on for 15 minutes about what his childhood was like in Turkey, complete with details about censorship, etc.

There is a big difference, but he has probably deceived even himself.

 

[PilgrimPastor]

I wouldn't be surprised if this were the plan all along. LU may have basically offered him a one-year contract to tide him over with the understanding that he would attempt to find another job in that time frame.

That was my impression when they announced a 1 year contract. "Get a new job, in a year..."

 

[Crucified in Christ]

That was my impression when they announced a 1 year contract. "Get a new job, in a year..."

Makes alot of sense. Liberty had to act; there was just too much evidence to overlook, yet Caner was very popular with a number of the leaders at Liberty. I am sure they did not want to hurt him even if he didn't seem to mind hurting the Seminary.

 

[PilgrimPastor]

Makes alot of sense. Liberty had to act; there was just too much evidence to overlook, yet Caner was very popular with a number of the leaders at Liberty. I am sure they did not want to hurt him even if he didn't seem to mind hurting the Seminary.

Good on them, very bad on him. I was listening to him through the online program years ago saying "this guy keeps exaggerating wildly, making half-statements, and throwing around far too much tough guy bravado..."

I'm not pleased that this happened, but it points to the reality that often when you dig a pit, you fall in it.

 

[TomVols]

I've felt torn discussing this saga since I've known the Caners for quite a while. I'd prefer not to say how long. I don't want to rehash the whole thing.

If anyone thinks Ergun is going to apologize, good luck with that. Isn't going to happen. Ever. Not if Ergun has any sayso.

I wonder if.....and I'm thinking out loud.....will Ergun slowly rehabilitate his image under the radar screen as people forget (or, ignore) what has happened, and he will reappear at SWBTS, MABTS or another like-minded institution in several years? The anti-Calvinist crowd tends to love him, and this group is growing in fervor. Just wondering.

I don't think that Liberty intentionally gave him a year's deal. They kept him on board for a reason. Ergun is not going to go away. Ever. Not if Ergun has any sayso.

I'm sorry if this sounds so negative.

 

[Rippon]

I've felt torn discussing this saga since I've known the Caners for quite a while. I'd prefer not to say how long. I don't want to rehash the whole thing.

If anyone thinks Ergun is going to apologize, good luck with that. Isn't going to happen. Ever. Not if Ergun has any sayso.

I wonder if.....and I'm thinking out loud.....will Ergun slowly rehabilitate his image under the radar screen as people forget (or, ignore) what has happened, and he will reappear at SWBTS, MABTS or another like-minded institution in several years? The anti-Calvinist crowd tends to love him, and this group is growing in fervor. Just wondering.

I don't think that Liberty intentionally gave him a year's deal. They kept him on board for a reason. Ergun is not going to go away. Ever. Not if Ergun has any sayso.

I'm sorry if this sounds so negative.

Does he think all the charges that he has lied repeatedly are just nonsense?

Is he even remotely embarrassed about the whole thing?

His family and close friends --staunch allies all know, for a fact about his lies. How could he go on for so long, (before bloggers really got wind of the facts) -- without them confronting him with his fabrications?

How does one try to rationalize their serial lying? How does a Christian do so?

Are any of his books,along with his brother Emir going to be amended?

Someone,perhaps many, of his close Christian friends had to have severely dressed him down. Has he admitted privately what he won't admit publicly?

He is still living under a dark cloud (God's wrath)that he can't shake unless...

 

[TomVols]

Tell you what: let me think about how much more and how much deeper I want to address this. I have a meeting to get off to, and then an ordination. Let me think about this.

More to come....

 

[Rhetorician]

Tom Response

Tell you what: let me think about how much more and how much deeper I want to address this. I have a meeting to get off to, and then an ordination. Let me think about this.

More to come....

Tom dear brother:

May I commend you for your wisdom and being slow to speak, I would continue to "think through" whether or not to comment more than you have said!!

I think it may be wise of you to follow the "Gamaliel principle." If it is not of God, or is it of God? In this case Ergun Caner. Right or wrong, he should be left up to God. I would say, leave it alone.

I only say this as a friend and colleague in the academcy and in ministry. We must not put our reputations on the line, yours and mine, by denigrated our brothers who "have been wounded." We must not shoot them in the head, but must lift them up, pray for them, and minister to them when and where necessary!! Amen?!?!

I implore you to think this through carefully, OK?

"That is all!" raying: