Preterism is a Better View of the Bible than Futurism for Someone Suffering

This is pragmatism, the view that "what works" indicates truth. And it's false. I suggest you go to the Word of God for your view rather than pragmatism.

The view that Christ is coming again physically is specifically stated to be comforting in the Word of God:

Paul ties the 2nd coming here to a physical event, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Therefore, it is clear that he means the 2nd coming also to be considered a physical event. Christ did not physically come in 70 AD.

The future physical coming of Jesus Christ is very comforting to me. It helps me know all will be okay, Christ knows about it all, and someday He will come to fix it all.

 

You did not answer my exegetical point in the passage.

(1) Do you or do you not believe that Jesus rose physically, bodily from the dead?

(2) If your answer to this is yes, He rose bodily, then you must answer my next point to be credible. If your answer is no, He did not rise bodily from the dead, then you should not be posting on the BB.

(3) At what point in 1 Thess. 4:14-15 did Paul cease talking about the physical presence of Christ and start talking about the spiritual presence of Christ? The verses are connected grammatically by the "For" at the beginning of 15.

 

Is or is not this thread about the 2nd coming of Christ? And if He came in 70 AD that was spiritual, according to you, correct? So what's your beef?

 

OK how about the normal everyday meaning of:

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.​

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

Acts 1

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Revelation 1
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

HankD​

 

To get the most benefit from theology, I imagine that a suffering person would want the truth, the truth contained within the Bible. Before one can be a preterist, one needs to believe in Reformed/Covenant theology.

On January 7, 2011 while doing a shift as a volunteer EMT, I fell on the ice and snow and spiral fractured my left tibia and fibula. On January 13, I had a plate, 7 screws and a pin implanted. This put me out of work for a time and was as they say a bit inconvient. Basically I had nothing to do but read the Bible for about 7-8 weeks. During that time I read the NT twice. Over the last 35 years I have read the entire Bible cover to cover in an organized fashon at least 10 times, probably more. Over the last 7 -8 years I have read the Bible for a minimum of 1 hour per day, every day. In all that reading I have not once stumbled on a passage of Scripture that teaches that God cut any Covenant of works, or grace or redemption with man.

Even on that PB forum, where Covenant theology rules the day and any futurist is laughed out of existence, when asked where in the actual Bible Jehovah God cut any of the three widely held covenants, the answers stumble and finally the historic teachings of the church and reformers and confessions are brought into view.

But yet in my misery of late I found a great deal of comfort in the words of the Bible in spite of my futurist view of things. I believe that Jesus will come again to gather up his saints in the clouds of glory. It will be a seminal event in human history, not hidden from the unbelieving masses and secular historians. I hope that it happens in my day but if it doesn't, I still get to be with Christ my Savior.

I believe that we who are alive when Christ returns for His own will be joined by those who sleep in Christ. My comfort is in knowing that my Savior Jesus already bought my salvation at the cross. When I consider the seriousness of God's love for me that while I was yet a sinner, Christ died for me and compare that work of love to the unlikely idea that the preterist teaching that Babylon in Revelation ch 17 is a code word for Jerusalem, comfort falls away from the equation, replaced with a sense of pity for those who cannot accept the plain teaching of the Bible and own a lack of appreciation for historical fact. In light of this I view the preterist as those who rather spend their time attempting to win a theological agruement which has at it's core a private (and unlikely) interpretation of the Scriptures rather than allow the Bible to speak to their needs as a sinner saved by grace.

This futurist started physical therapy and resumed regular employment with a renewed sense of urgency to spread the message of God's love in Christ and to personally be ready for I know not when that day of Christ's return may be. It could be today.

Why Mr. Preterist is it not reasonable to say that if I can find comfort in God's love in the actual words Bible in the year 2011, that my brothers in the first century could not likewise find the same degree of comfort from the same words in God's Holy book without assuming that some unproven historical event happened in the intervening 21 centuries?

 

Yes, one can be comforted by the fact that Christ came back 2,000 years ago and life still stinks. :laugh: "Yes, He kept his promise to come back, but nothing is better." what a wonderful comfort! ... not.

But John's statement that this is an argument based on pragmatism. What makes ME feel better is obviously true. The problem with your argument as I see it is that your view is not comforting at all.

 

Are you saying here that IF jesus did not come back in 70 AD, than the promise was not fulfilled?

The Second Coming of Christ is a blessing to both us and this World...
promise that I will one day have my physical body raised and glorified to be as He now is, AND this earth will finally have Jesus/God directly ruling over it, Paradise restored Satan bound...

IF Jesus actually did come back, do you see this World right now running under His reign, with Satan bound?
If yes, how can you say that with all sin and misery around us still?

 

Knowing your aversion to the Greek (in spite of it being the language the NT was originally written in), I avoided all mention of it in my post. I am just as comfortable in the English Bible. So, care to debate the English Bible? (Oh and by the way, I never declare my Greek to be superior, though I do declare my Greek tools to be superior. I just never see anyone answering my points from the Greek.)

Let me get this straight. In your OP you talked about Christ coming in 70 AD. Then you talked about your preterism being a comfort because Christ kept His promise to come then.

But when I bring up and try to discuss the only--the only--passage in the NT which teaches that the 2nd coming of Christ is a comfort, I'm dodging the issue. Is that your view?

And I said the futurist view was more comforting because the Bible--quoting the English KJV--talks about comfort and the 2nd coming. My belief in the future, literal, physical 2nd coming of Christ is far more comforting to me than some spiritual coming in 70 AD that no one saw, no one recorded and no one can prove.

End of story and end of debate, if you don't want to discuss the Word of God.

 

I understand the point and addressed it. You Sir are doing what preterists do best and is the only option available and that is to confuse and change the subject, rather than deal with the data available.

 

Thanks Logos1.

I disagree that my inquiry is off the main point.

In fact it is the essence of the point concerning a statement in the O/P:

You responded to my inquiry as to the plain and simple meaning of the scriptures I presented with explanations and additional scripture.

Allow me the same recourse as to the meaning of “coming soon” and “this generation”.

"coming soon" The Scripture defines "soon" from God's perspective:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.​

"this generation" the generation present on earth at His second coming.
The events thereof to come quickly within that generation.​

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.​

Lastly, I would draw no comfort from believing that Christ had already returned, yet here am I on earth, a planet filled with sin and violence yet somehow Christ had bound satan in the lake of fire.
In addition I have a mortal body which contradicts the scripture concerning Christ return:​

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.​

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.​

Which also vindicates the Acts passage that Jesus left in a material body and shall return likewise.

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.​

We have been down this road often.
Thank you for your civility brother.

HankD​