preacher4truth
Active Member
Nope. I'm against that theory that the Jews only needed to repent of Who Messiah is, and that Gentiles need to repent of sins. I also not accusing anyone of saying this either. Just saying. And hopefully clarifying.
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Salvation minus repentance equals salvation?
- Thread starter convicted1
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Nope. I'm against that theory that the Jews only needed to repent of Who Messiah is, and that Gentiles need to repent of sins. I also not accusing anyone of saying this either. Just saying. And hopefully clarifying.
If we all think about this...
is repentance also involved in us confessing our sins?
We have to agree with God that it was sin, repent of it, in order to be able to willfully confess it to God?
can there be genuine faith without a form of genuine repentance?
convicted1
Guest
True stories!!
My dad and mom were at a church one sunday several years(8-10??) ago. At the end of the meeting, the closing preacher published an open door to receive members by experience and baptism. A man came forth, and when the church asked him if he believed that the Lord had saved him, he stated that he dreamed he did. The moderator stated, "If you can't believe a dream, you can't believe anything"...or something real close to this.
!!
I witnessed a person's testimony one time close to two years ago, and I mean I could really feel the Holy Spirit. I was bawling, I couldn't stop, nor did I want to. They asked her if she wanted to say anything to the church about her "testimony", and she stated, "I was dreaming I was going down the road.......", and the Spirit left me thisquick, just like turning a water faucet off. I could not tell you anything else she said after that....well, they took this person out and stuck her under the water....needless to say, I didn't go to witness it. Repentance doesn't take place in one's dream. if you ask me. !!
My dad and mom were at a church one sunday several years(8-10??) ago. At the end of the meeting, the closing preacher published an open door to receive members by experience and baptism. A man came forth, and when the church asked him if he believed that the Lord had saved him, he stated that he dreamed he did. The moderator stated, "If you can't believe a dream, you can't believe anything"...or something real close to this.
!!I witnessed a person's testimony one time close to two years ago, and I mean I could really feel the Holy Spirit. I was bawling, I couldn't stop, nor did I want to. They asked her if she wanted to say anything to the church about her "testimony", and she stated, "I was dreaming I was going down the road.......", and the Spirit left me thisquick, just like turning a water faucet off. I could not tell you anything else she said after that....well, they took this person out and stuck her under the water....needless to say, I didn't go to witness it. Repentance doesn't take place in one's dream. if you ask me.
!!convicted1
Guest
I don't think so. That would be like asking the preachers if they could baptize you without you getting wet. Water is wet. Gen-u-wine repentance brings forth gen-u-wine faith and/or vice versa. They are mutually inclusive to each other, IMO.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Do yall haf to be babtyzed in back-watta in yer parts convicted1? or will iny ol watta be doin it OK fer yall now?
Holler bakk now, ya heer?
convicted1
Guest
Well, there was a time in the ORBs, that bapistry baptisms were a major "no-no", unless they were deathly ill....and even then, some scoffed at that notion. I, for one, was baptized in an outdoor baptisty. I really preferred the creek, but my dad had had open heart, four bypasses, about three-and-a-half years earlier, and the other preacher had had two open hearts, both carotids(sp?) operated on, hernia surgeries, and me being 265-270 at that time, I thought it would be easier for them getting into and out of the baptistry.
The ORBs do not have indoor baptistries in ANY of their churches, that I know of. There are some in Michigan that may have them....not for sure on that, though. They can not baptize in any creek, lake, river, etc in Michigan. It's mandated by law not to do it....best I have heard. Old Union Brother can tell you more about this, seeing that he visits those churches from time-to-time.
I'm not saying that. I am saying that the 'change of mind' or repentance for Jews is more personally profound than the repentance for the Gentiles. Does that make sense?
convicted1
Guest
Nowadays, the Gentiles have access to the Father the same way the Jews do...through faith. A sinning jew and a sinning gentile have the same problem....they're both sinners. And repentance is required if either/both of them get saved. God deals with sinners, and not just the jew and/or gentile, the exact same way.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Granted
Those who heard, those who listened and learned He granted repentance that leads to life, Without His word you can't do anything.
Those who heard, those who listened and learned He granted repentance that leads to life, Without His word you can't do anything.
Understand, as it would require them to actually accept jesus as their promised messiah, same way say a Muslim who turns to Christ has to undo Allah and Mohammed from his life in order to receive Christ instead!
Think though God asking for genuine repentance as part of salvation experience, regardless if jew/gentile!
convicted1
Guest
The muslim boy/girl is in the same boat as the boy/girl that grew up in a good christian home. Without God as their Saviour, they are lost, and they both have to approach God the exact same way, by faith. However, God must call to them before they can approach Him.
IOW, the jews and gentiles are now on even playing grounds.
Hank understood what you fellows did not understand. In the gospels John the Baptist preached repentance. That is not the gospel message of today. Thus I issued a challenge:
Without using the Gospels or the Book of Acts, show from the epistles that repentance is part of the gospel. Where in the epistles does it say one must repent to be saved.
--Acts 17:30 does not fit that bill. That was on page 9 on the previous thread.
Later, on page 11, post #109, I issued another challenge. Show me anywhere in the NT, in fact in the entire Bible if you please, where a sinner must come to Christ by repenting of all his sins. That is an unbilblical concept nowhere found in the Bible. In fact it is a works-based religion running directly contrary to what Christianity teaches. Yet, it is sad to see that many of our preachers today still give an invitation that is worded very similar to that.
--Acts 17:30 does not fit that either.
In spite of all your arguments, not one of you were able to give a verse of Scripture that answered those challenges.
In his post Hank understood what I was getting at. Belief and repentance (defined correctly) are two sides of the same coin. Although I explained this in the other thread more than once, it seems that many of you did not accept it. If you believe on Christ then you have repented. You can't do one without the other. If I have truly believed on Christ, is not my mind changed toward my rebellious attitude that I formerly had against God. That is what repentance is--a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God. It occurs when one believes on Christ as their Savior. The gospel message is to believe on Christ. That is where the emphasis is.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Not really.
All of us understand it that you accuse of not understanding.
You were given verses. 2 Peter 3:9 alludes to it in the salvation story. It brings up the Second Coming, and uses this verse given to you to show why God has not sent His Son as of yet. Why not? That all would come to REPENTANCE for salvation. Notice it doesn't say that all will come to belief?
Proof is right there.
Also, there were other arguments given, and other passages.
We don't happen to agree with you, nor your interpretation of these verses given, which I believe you interpret in bias in order to arrive at your theological position. Instead, we let the Scriptures freely speak. By the way, many do intepret in bias and presupposition. It's nothing new.
2 Peter 3:9 is very clear. Many scholars and commentaries agree God awaits repentant ones to receive His Son.
In addition, you asked for one Bible verse in the NT, not just EPISTLES, that shows where God tells sinners to repent in yhet another one of your seperate questions. I gave it to you: Acts 17:30.
I provided it. It's simple really. God commands all men everywhere to repent.
And Peter gives us God's purpose in not sending His Son yet, a truth that remains as His purpose yet today, that is; That He is waiting for persons to repent.
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I will try to get this answered one final time...
IF the command to repent is given in Gospels and Acts, why is it not binding upon us today as being part of the Gospel message to tell others?
Do we divide up the Bible to have Christians pre Epistles theology, and Epistles Christian theology?
isn't this getting real close to hyper -Dispy, that teaches essentially NOTHING in Gospel/Acts is to/for Church Age, ALL we need is Pauline Epistles only pretty much?
Alive in Christ
New Member
When I finally came to God, in tears, desiring salvation, I repented of nothing, I turned fron nothing, and I pomised God nothing.
It was a plain and simply cry for Jesus, salvation and new life.
It was after being saved, as the Holy Spirit started His work, that the reefer and the other drugs, and whiskey, and the self centeredness, sewer language and rebelion, and illicit sex etc etc began to fall out of my life.
Praise God!
You could say that a repented of NOT wanting Jesus to live in me.
I guess I DID repent of something. :thumbs:
It was a plain and simply cry for Jesus, salvation and new life.
It was after being saved, as the Holy Spirit started His work, that the reefer and the other drugs, and whiskey, and the self centeredness, sewer language and rebelion, and illicit sex etc etc began to fall out of my life.
Praise God!
You could say that a repented of NOT wanting Jesus to live in me.
I guess I DID repent of something. :thumbs:
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Good luck with the part I've bolded! :laugh:
2Pet.3:9 says "unto repentance;" it does not say one must repent of any sin to be saved. Furthermore, it is God's will and desire for all men to be saved, whereas we know all men will not be saved. It is an expressed desire. There is no "repent from" in order to be saved in that verse.
What many other verses?
[quote[2 Peter 3:9 is very clear. Many scholars and commentaries agree God awaits repentant ones to receive His Son. [/quote]
Not your definition of repentance. I had to define repentance for you, a definition I still don't think you have quite comprehended, and why it is not used in the epistles.
To challenge one, it is not in the epistles.
To challenge two, it doesn't say one must repent of all their sins.
It fails on both counts.
By your definition. It does not meet the challenges that I issued you.
I didn't ask for verse with the word "repent" in it. I asked very specific questions which apparently you are not able to answer and for good reason.
Not your definition of repentance. I had to define repentance for you, a definition I still don't think you have quite comprehended, and why it is not used in the epistles.
To challenge one, it is not in the epistles.
To challenge two, it doesn't say one must repent of all their sins.
It fails on both counts.
By your definition. It does not meet the challenges that I issued you.
I didn't ask for verse with the word "repent" in it. I asked very specific questions which apparently you are not able to answer and for good reason.[/QUOTE]
So by your definition of the concept...
Does God ask us to "repent" and turn to Christ, placing faith in Him at all?
Just seeing IF you are saying NO repentance required at all todasy by God, or a different kind than he required early on in Church Age?
Yes. That is why we have dispensations. The Church age started with Pentecost, not with John the Baptists who had a ministry of a message of repentance. That is not the message of the gospel today. The message in the gospel was pre-cross. It makes a difference. In Acts we have a book of transition. They were still meeting first in the temple and then in the synagogue. It is a book of history. The epistles are where we get our doctrine from.
No, it is good hermeutical common sense.
Do you know that if you take away the Book of Acts from the Oneness Pentecostals they are unable to present to you the gospel. They can't do it without the Book of Acts. Why? Because of their emphasis on tongues and the filling of the Spirit. Though the entire book of Romans is all about salvation, they must have the book of Acts to present their version of the gospel. One cannot use history to teach doctrine.
Yes you did. I believe in repentance. I have said that many times, and have defined it many times. What happened when you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Your attitude toward God changed (repentance). Because He became your Lord, you became obedient to him, whereas before you were rebellious toward him. Repentance is a change of attitude toward God. And that change of attitude caused you to give up your sinful habits. You became a new creature in Christ.
Let's look at it another way. Did you have to repent of your sins in order to be saved. If you did, then you have a works salvation. Salvation is not reformation, but regeneration. It is not doing this and that, and this and that; and cleaning up your life in order to be saved. Do I have to repent of all my sins and get my life all in order before I can be saved. I hope not. I will never be saved if that is true. That is a religion that is based on works. The Bible does not teach: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and repent and you shall be saved. It simply says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Why are people adding to the word of God?
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