R. Al Mohler of Southern Seminary on Homosexuality

[Rhetorician]

Hello to all:

If you have not heard Dr. Al Mohle'sr, President of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (SBC) in Louisville, KY, public response at the SBC annual meeting to the "homosexual question," I am posting it for all to hear.

I think you will thoroughly enjoy his answer to a question posed from the floor.

FYI, get back to me with observations please. :smilewinkgrin:

http://sbcvoices.com/al-mohlers-res...eed&utm_campaign=Feed:+SbcVoices+(SBC+Voices)

"That is all!

 

[Tom Butler]

This was an excellent articulation of where Southern Baptists should be on this issue.

 

[quantumfaith]

Hello to all:

If you have not heard Dr. Al Mohle'sr, President of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (SBC) in Louisville, KY, public response at the SBC annual meeting to the "homosexual question," I am posting it for all to hear.

I think you will thoroughly enjoy his answer to a question posed from the floor.

FYI, get back to me with observations please. :smilewinkgrin:

http://sbcvoices.com/al-mohlers-res...eed&utm_campaign=Feed:+SbcVoices+(SBC+Voices)

"That is all!

I thought Dr. Mohlers response was quite good and acceptable, however, not sure I agree with him that we as SB, have "lied" concerning the matter of homosexuality and its origins. Most reasoned people (I think) would agree that we are not solely or primarily a product of one domain of influence, but rather a sum total of our genetics, environment and experiences.

 

[JesusFan]

I thought Dr. Mohlers response was quite good and acceptable, however, not sure I agree with him that we as SB, have "lied" concerning the matter of homosexuality and its origins. Most reasoned people (I think) would agree that we are not solely or primarily a product of one domain of influence, but rather a sum total of our genetics, environment and experiences.

As long as we as Christians affirm in this discussion that:

It is Sin once actually "worked out/performed" as one can be tempted to do this, and not yield to that tempatation
That it is Sinful behaviour, but jesus can and does forgive/restore one in such a state IF they come to jesus Christ finding forgiveness and power to live a new life in Him
that it is NOT unpardonable sin, and that we ALL are sinners before God, some of us with more recognisable sins than others!

 

[StefanM]

I thought Dr. Mohlers response was quite good and acceptable, however, not sure I agree with him that we as SB, have "lied" concerning the matter of homosexuality and its origins. Most reasoned people (I think) would agree that we are not solely or primarily a product of one domain of influence, but rather a sum total of our genetics, environment and experiences.

Honestly, it's not the issue of what reasoned people think. A lot of non-reasoned people have spoken loudly to this issue.

 

[Iconoclast]

Al Mohler gave the only correct biblical response to the question.he went to some of the key passages on this issue,and quickly dispatched any potential objectors. Thanks for the clip!

 

[quantumfaith]

Honestly, it's not the issue of what reasoned people think. A lot of non-reasoned people have spoken loudly to this issue.

Sorry, I do not understand your response here.

 

[quantumfaith]

As long as we as Christians affirm in this discussion that:

It is Sin once actually "worked out/performed" as one can be tempted to do this, and not yield to that tempatation
That it is Sinful behaviour, but jesus can and does forgive/restore one in such a state IF they come to jesus Christ finding forgiveness and power to live a new life in Him
that it is NOT unpardonable sin, and that we ALL are sinners before God, some of us with more recognisable sins than others!

Did I seem to imply otherwise....that it was not sin? If so, I most certainly did not intend to do so.

 

[JesusFan]

Did I seem to imply otherwise....that it was not sin? If so, I most certainly did not intend to do so.

No, wasn't directed to you specifically, just more of a general statement that at times in our 'zeal" to be against that Sin, can almost forget that ALL of us are just as bad off spiritual as a Homosexual before Holy god...

Without His grace and mercy applied to us, we are ALL lost and in the same boat!

 

[quantumfaith]

No, wasn't directed to you specifically, just more of a general statement that at times in our 'zeal" to be against that Sin, can almost forget that ALL of us are just as bad off spiritual as a Homosexual before Holy god...

Without His grace and mercy applied to us, we are ALL lost and in the same boat!

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[StefanM]

Sorry, I do not understand your response here.

My point is that a lot of ignorance is shown when this issue is discussed. Mohler's words make a lot of sense, but many vocal individuals seem to insist that it is simply a choice, as if one wakes up in the morning to decide whether to be attracted to men or women that day.

 

[JesusFan]

My point is that a lot of ignorance is shown when this issue is discussed. Mohler's words make a lot of sense, but many vocal individuals seem to insist that it is simply a choice, as if one wakes up in the morning to decide whether to be attracted to men or women that day.

it is still a choice one makes to do, but that person is also sinning against the Lord when he chooses to act out his desires...

Same way as an Alcololic is when he decides to drink until drunk, drug addict to get drugged up etc....

 

[annsni]

it is still a choice one makes to do, but that person is also sinning against the Lord when he chooses to act out his desires...

Same way as an Alcololic is when he decides to drink until drunk, drug addict to get drugged up etc....

Exactly. But I think the key thing to realize is that it's not just a choice like whether we're having Fruit Loops or granola for breakfast but that there is a drive in the person who struggles with homosexuality - much like I have a drive in me to eat fatty foods. However, I'm not going to say that because I have that drive, it must be OK because it's not. So it's not right to say "It's a choice, just choose to not do it." and leave it at that. As Dr. Mohler said, we need the Gospel to change hearts and desires and it is when God gets a hold of these people that they have the ability to overcome. I love how he finished out his statement of speaking of the "such were some of you but you have been washed" passage. Praise God that we ALL were "such" but are now washed.

 

[JesusFan]

Exactly. But I think the key thing to realize is that it's not just a choice like whether we're having Fruit Loops or granola for breakfast but that there is a drive in the person who struggles with homosexuality - much like I have a drive in me to eat fatty foods. However, I'm not going to say that because I have that drive, it must be OK because it's not. So it's not right to say "It's a choice, just choose to not do it." and leave it at that. As Dr. Mohler said, we need the Gospel to change hearts and desires and it is when God gets a hold of these people that they have the ability to overcome. I love how he finished out his statement of speaking of the "such were some of you but you have been washed" passage. Praise God that we ALL were "such" but are now washed.

I agree with you on this...

it is a choice that one deliberately makes, but that person is working out their desires based upon the fact they are sinners and just doing "what comes natural" as within ALL of us before Chrsit have that sinful/evil nature...

they just express it outwardlty and visiblly, we before Christ were just as Guilty before God with our pride and gossip and lies etc!

We MUST continue to affirm that chosen lifestyle IS sinful, but also Msut take to those caught up in it that

The good news is that they can be redeemed and set free of their bondage to the Flesh by the grace of God in Jesus, and by the power of Holy Spirit!

 

[StefanM]

We MUST continue to affirm that chosen lifestyle IS sinful, but also Msut take to those caught up in it that

Some of the problem is in our phrasing. When we say things like "chosen lifestyle," others hear "You chose to be gay."

Do you refer to life as a heterosexual as a "chosen lifestyle?" Likely not.

A more nuanced response is helpful.

We can say something like this:

"The Bible is clear that homosexual acts are sinful. We also recognize that many individuals have attractions to members of the same sex, and for some, these attractions have been present as long as they can remember. We do not choose which temptations are more attractive to us, but we recognize that Christ can empower us not to yield to our temptations, whatever those temptations may be."

 

[JesusFan]

Some of the problem is in our phrasing. When we say things like "chosen lifestyle," others hear "You chose to be gay."

Do you refer to life as a heterosexual as a "chosen lifestyle?" Likely not.

A more nuanced response is helpful.

We can say something like this:

"The Bible is clear that homosexual acts are sinful. We also recognize that many individuals have attractions to members of the same sex, and for some, these attractions have been present as long as they can remember. We do not choose which temptations are more attractive to us, but we recognize that Christ can empower us not to yield to our temptations, whatever those temptations may be."

Didn't those caught up in that lifestyle though actually made a deliberate decision to go into it?

No One is 'born that way" as God would not create persons who would go to that way by "natural desires"

What is wrong with just plainly stating that it is a conscious choice made to became part of that lifestyle, is sinful behavior, but that Jesus had died for that sin, and someone who is saved by grace of God can be redeemed from it?

 

[StefanM]

Didn't those caught up in that lifestyle though actually made a deliberate decision to go into it?

Why are you referring to it as a lifestyle? There is not a monolithic "gay lifestyle." At the core, you are referring to individuals who have same-sex relationships, of varying levels of commitment. Each act is a matter of volition, but I don't think it's as simple as saying a person "chose the lifestyle."

Have you ever spoken to someone who has same-sex attractions about this?

No One is 'born that way" as God would not create persons who would go to that way by "natural desires"

What evidence do you have for this claim? Sin has powerful effects on the world, and this contributes to genetic variances, as we do not live in a perfect world.

What is wrong with just plainly stating that it is a conscious choice made to became part of that lifestyle, is sinful behavior, but that Jesus had died for that sin, and someone who is saved by grace of God can be redeemed from it?

Because this sin is singled out.

 

[The Archangel]

Didn't those caught up in that lifestyle though actually made a deliberate decision to go into it?

No One is 'born that way" as God would not create persons who would go to that way by "natural desires"

What is wrong with just plainly stating that it is a conscious choice made to became part of that lifestyle, is sinful behavior, but that Jesus had died for that sin, and someone who is saved by grace of God can be redeemed from it?

Unfortunately, what you said--No One is 'born that way" as God would not create persons who would go to that way by "natural desires"--does not mesh with scripture.

Anyone--the murderer, the thief, the homosexual, etc. are only acting out a "natural" desire. When the Paul writes, "and such were some of you" we understand the "natural" desire has been replaced with desires wrought of the Holy Spirit. So, while not perfect, we struggle mightily against our "natural" desires as the Spirit-wrought desires take us over.

Further, we must remember that we are not "created" as such. We are procreated. Therefore we do not bear the marks of sinlessness of Adam and Eve in the garden prior to the Fall. In fact, we bear the marks of fallenness of Adam and Eve after the Fall (See Genesis 5).

So, our "natural" is the un-natural fallen condition of all mankind. We need a new natural--the washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

The Archangel

 

[JesusFan]

Unfortunately, what you said--No One is 'born that way" as God would not create persons who would go to that way by "natural desires"--does not mesh with scripture.

Anyone--the murderer, the thief, the homosexual, etc. are only acting out a "natural" desire. When the Paul writes, "and such were some of you" we understand the "natural" desire has been replaced with desires wrought of the Holy Spirit. So, while not perfect, we struggle mightily against our "natural" desires as the Spirit-wrought desires take us over.

Further, we must remember that we are not "created" as such. We are procreated. Therefore we do not bear the marks of sinlessness of Adam and Eve in the garden prior to the Fall. In fact, we bear the marks of fallenness of Adam and Eve after the Fall (See Genesis 5).

So, our "natural" is the un-natural fallen condition of all mankind. We need a new natural--the washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

The Archangel

thanks for your input....

Think you are indeed correct in this, as all of us are not born 'warped" as sinners, whose "natural" selves will be in rebellion towards doing things God way!

Think what i was trying to see was that God did NOT "make someone gay/murdrer/thief/lier" etc because we are all sinners and that is a by product of that...

Still hold though that being involved in such a lifestyle is a choice to follow thru with what are abnormal "natural desires" just as someone chooses to lie all the time, drink all the time, cuss all the time etc....

 

[JesusFan]

Why are you referring to it as a lifestyle? There is not a monolithic "gay lifestyle." At the core, you are referring to individuals who have same-sex relationships, of varying levels of commitment. Each act is a matter of volition, but I don't think it's as simple as saying a person "chose the lifestyle."

Have you ever spoken to someone who has same-sex attractions about this?



What evidence do you have for this claim? Sin has powerful effects on the world, and this contributes to genetic variances, as we do not live in a perfect world.



Because this sin is singled out.

the MAIN reason that this particular Sin gets 'singled" out though is because it isd the ONLY main sin that its participates insist on NOT calling a sinful lifestyle, being in sinful practices...

Drunards, killer, thief, liars etc ALL can say those are sins being done/performed, but seems that this Sin is one people condone, some even as it being approved by God, as long as you do it "scripturally!"