can we get Saved By Gospel itself, W/O grace of God Enabling us To respond?

[JesusFan]

Do human beings have it within us by our very natures to actually hear the Gospel and respond by faith in Christ by Gospel ALONE?

that we still have enough in us to decide for Christ or not, APART from any additional working of God on our behalf? No Holy Spirit quickening/enabling us?

that man can hear and accept by faith, NO need for God to enable us, we can do it ourselves?

 

[Alive in Christ]

can we get Saved By Gospel itself, W/O grace of God Enabling us To respond

Well, in one respect we are never outside of Gods grace. Both the saved and the lost. Its Gods grace that He doesnt strike us dead when we sin. Its Gods grace that keeps sun going so that we dont freeze to death.

I like the way the wonderful brother Zola Levitt described it on his radio broadcast one time...

He said that we swim around in Gods grace the same way fish swim in water.

We cant get away from it. Gods general grace is everywhere, all around us, all the time.

 

[Skandelon]

can we get Saved By Gospel itself, W/O grace of God Enabling us To respond

As I explained in the other post, this question presumes that the Gospel itself isn't a gracious work of the Holy Spirit mean to enable a response. The gospel IS the power of God unto salvation. It is a divinely sent appeal to be reconciled, why would anyone presume it was somehow insufficient to enable a response?

 

[Tom Butler]

I think we make mistake if we try to separate the gospel from the work of the Holy Spirit. The gospel is the power of God to salvation.

I agree with Skandelon on this. Now we might not see eye to eye about the application of the enabling, but the principle is the same.

Skandelon, I think, believes all are God-enabled at any time. I think the enabling is applied when the Holy Spirit goes to work, applying the power of the gospel. But despite the different perspective, we agree on the need for the gospel, its power, and the enabling work of the Spirit.

 

[Skandelon]

I think we make mistake if we try to separate the gospel from the work of the Holy Spirit. The gospel is the power of God to salvation.

:thumbs: AMEN!!!

I think the enabling is applied when the Holy Spirit goes to work, applying the power of the gospel. But despite the different perspective, we agree on the need for the gospel, its power, and the enabling work of the Spirit.

Right. Even Calvinists can affirm that enabling grace is a work accomplished in and through the work of the Gospel, as do I. The difference is that Calvinists believe this enabling work is unique to the elect and effectual, whereas I believe anyone who hears the gospel has been enabled to respond but they may also resist or reject God's appeal to be reconciled.

Thanks for the clarity Tom! :thumbs:

 

[JesusFan]

I think we make mistake if we try to separate the gospel from the work of the Holy Spirit. The gospel is the power of God to salvation.

I agree with Skandelon on this. Now we might not see eye to eye about the application of the enabling, but the principle is the same.

Skandelon, I think, believes all are God-enabled at any time. I think the enabling is applied when the Holy Spirit goes to work, applying the power of the gospel. But despite the different perspective, we agree on the need for the gospel, its power, and the enabling work of the Spirit.

Would you agree with me though that unless the Holy Spirit "quickens" "opens your mind/heart to the Gospel, that one cannot turn tot he Lord and be saved?

Both Cals/arms affirm that there is a distincr work/act of grace that God sends to the lost and enables them to be able to receive Jesus...

Skandelon seems to be saying that God does not need to apply/send that enabling grace, that we can place faith in jesus by faith in and of us apart from God!

 

[Skandelon]

Would you agree with me though that unless the Holy Spirit "quickens" "opens your mind/heart to the Gospel, that one cannot turn tot he Lord and be saved?

I believe the Gospel is the means by which God "quickens" (gives understanding).

"The truth shall set you free."
"The gospel is the power of God unto salvation"
"The word of God will not return void."
"Faith comes by hearing"
"How will they believe unless they hear."
"The words I speak to you are spirit and life."

The mystery of God at that time was just being made known to the world. How?

1. Through an inward secret enabling work of God by which he supernaturally gave men understanding to the mysteries of the kingdom?

2. Or through the Gospel? The message inspired through divinely appointed apostles, selected and anointed to record God's powerful truth.

 

[Skandelon]

Skandelon seems to be saying that God does not need to apply/send that enabling grace, that we can place faith in jesus by faith in and of us apart from God!

No, I'm saying that God sent that enabling grace by sending the Gospel.

The Gospel IS a gracious work of the Holy Spirit, is it not? Of course it is. How is that work of the HS insufficient to save while another work of the HS is not? What makes one work of the HS effectual and another ineffectual?

 

[JesusFan]

No, I'm saying that God sent that enabling grace by sending the Gospel.

The Gospel IS a gracious work of the Holy Spirit, is it not? Of course it is. How is that work of the HS insufficient to save while another work of the HS is not? What makes one work of the HS effectual and another ineffectual?

just saying that classical cals/arms BOTH affirm that there IS an external work of grace done by God enabling those who hear the Gospel to be able to respond to it!

 

[Winman]

No, I'm saying that God sent that enabling grace by sending the Gospel.

The Gospel IS a gracious work of the Holy Spirit, is it not? Of course it is. How is that work of the HS insufficient to save while another work of the HS is not? What makes one work of the HS effectual and another ineffectual?

Yes! We do not need the gospel PLUS something else to believe. The gospel ALONE is the power of God to save those who believe it.

God does not require anything supernatural from man to be saved, man must simply believe the gospel. The supernatural power is in the gospel alone to convict man of his sinfulness, make him wise to understand that salvation can be obtained by trusting in Christ, and regenerating the man when he believes.

We have NO POWER. We are not required to have power, we are simply to believe. All power is in the gospel itself. Nothing needs to be added to it!

 

[Skandelon]

just saying that classical cals/arms BOTH affirm that there IS an external work of grace done by God enabling those who hear the Gospel to be able to respond to it!

What is meant here by "External work of grace?" What is "external" about the effectual/irresistible calling in the Calvinistic system?

 

[Skandelon]

God does not require anything supernatural from man to be saved, man must simply believe the gospel.

I get you meaning, and agree, however, to be clear, the inspiration and preservation of the Gospel was quite a supernatural working of God, which is what you were probably pointing out when you went on to say...

The supernatural power is in the gospel alone to convict man of his sinfulness, make him wise to understand that salvation can be obtained by trusting in Christ, and regenerating the man when he believes.

:thumbs:

 

[Winman]

Yes Skan, the gospel IS supernatural, they are not mere words, they are the words of the living God! They are Spirit and they are life.

The scriptures weren't written by man, they are a supernatural revelation from God himself.

God does not require man to do something, or be something he cannot do or be, we are simply to believe.

God does all the supernatural work, when we believe he regenerates us and gives us everlasting life.

 

[JesusFan]

Yes! We do not need the gospel PLUS something else to believe. The gospel ALONE is the power of God to save those who believe it.

God does not require anything supernatural from man to be saved, man must simply believe the gospel. The supernatural power is in the gospel alone to convict man of his sinfulness, make him wise to understand that salvation can be obtained by trusting in Christ, and regenerating the man when he believes.

We have NO POWER. We are not required to have power, we are simply to believe. All power is in the gospel itself. Nothing needs to be added to it!

Only thing that has to be added to it is people actually able to respond by faith to it!
We are unable to do that in our sinful natures, and God MUST do His work toenable us to be even able to respond to the Gospel that we heard!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

In answer to the O.P., the preaching of the Gospel must be accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit to open the blind eyes and make the dry bones live.

1 Corinthians 2:4, 14; Acts 16:14.

Steve

 

[JesusFan]

In answer to the O.P., the preaching of the Gospel must be accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit to open the blind eyes and make the dry bones live.

1 Corinthians 2:4, 14; Acts 16:14.

Steve

So unless/until He gives them "ears to hear/heart to respond" they will hear but stay deaf to what it really means?

 

[Skandelon]

In answer to the O.P., the preaching of the Gospel must be accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit to open the blind eyes and make the dry bones live.

1 Corinthians 2:4, 14; Acts 16:14.

Steve

Because the Gospel IS the power of the HS, the two cannot be separated from each other.

 

[Skandelon]

So unless/until He gives them "ears to hear/heart to respond" they will hear but stay deaf to what it really means?

Only those whose hearts have "grown calloused" or who have been "sent a spirit of stupor," as it was with the Israelites in Christ's days on earth, wouldn't have the ability to see, hear, understand and repent when confronted by the clear revelation of God's truth.

Read Acts 28:28, Mark 4, Mat. 13

 

[Winman]

Only thing that has to be added to it is people actually able to respond by faith to it!
We are unable to do that in our sinful natures, and God MUST do His work toenable us to be even able to respond to the Gospel that we heard!

False, you are denying the power of the gospel alone to save.

Show me even one verse in the scriptures that says man must be regenerated to have the ability to believe.

 

[quantumfaith]

As I explained in the other post, this question presumes that the Gospel itself isn't a gracious work of the Holy Spirit meant to enable a response. The gospel IS the power of God unto salvation. It is a divinely sent appeal to be reconciled, why would anyone presume it was somehow insufficient to enable a response?

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: