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Faith Received Part Trey!!
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in Ephesians 2:1it says that we are “dead in trespasses and sins.” Death is the absence of life and the complete separation from life. To put it simply, the essential teaching of the doctrine of total depravity is this: Human beings have no spiritual life—sin has killed them. We are all dead spiritually and will eventually die physically.
psalms109:31
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Spirit
The Spirit and life the gift of God is not within our selves, but in Christ and coming from His word.
The Spirit and life the gift of God is not within our selves, but in Christ and coming from His word.
preacher4truth
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Exactly. That's sound doctrine, completely scriptural.
Why is this always left off?
...in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
Spiritual death (the ending of life) occurred in the above manner...not at conception as Augustine and the masses holding on to this RC doctrine believe.
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You show a lack of understanding. In the parable of the sower, Jesus said the seed was the word of God. And just as a seed has life in it, the word of God is quick and alive. The same seed was sown to all four grounds or soils, there was not one "effectual" seed sown to one soil and another that was "ineffectual" or "general" sown to another soil. All received a seed with the same potential for life.
The difference was in the hearers. The way side was hard soil, it was trodden down. This is someone who does not believe at all. The seed laid on the surface and the fowls took it away. The rocky soil received the seed, but the seed could not take root. When persecution came, they fell away, Jesus said these are those "which for a while believe" which proves he is speaking of the faith of the hearer. The good soil were those who fully believed. The seed was able to take deep root, spring up and produce fruit.
So, the life is in the seed, not in the ground, but just as a seed needs good soil to grow, God's word requires faith to produce life in the believer.
I don't know how to explain it any simpler than this.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Huh?
This describes how those born in sin live. It doesn't prove your following comments.
Nope. Not at all. I thought you said spiritual death is separation? Now you're saying it's the ending of life? Which is it? Ending of life but yet alive? Which is it? Dead or not?
Well, it's total inability.
Nope. It didn't occur in the above manner as if each of us is our own Adam. It's too late for that fellow. Scriptures affirm this over and over and over and over. Spiritual death happened in the Garden, and fell upon all men afterwards. Sometimes, even a RC gets it right.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Not at all, that describes you perfectly..
You cannot "comprehende." This is why you come up with your doctrines that are eisegetical massacres of truth and context.
Admit your error and not comprehending then replying to rebuke me on something you didn't even read, and for rebukling me while affirming exactly what I said. Be a good man and admit your error and not paying attention to what is written.
I truncated in the interest of time... the remainder is just an embellishment of sin filled life
& I dont believe any Baptist would say it is at conception....your right, I believe its an RC doctrine..... that the act of sex is a sinful act & so conception holds a sin nature--- thus the need for immediate baptism to cleanse the sin away. Then you get points for it being a sacrament! :laugh: Presbyterians I believe hold to it to some degree (I wasn't a very good Presbyterian so I wasn't up to speed on their doctrine which is Westminster) & so do the Eucharistic churches....Episcopal, Anglican & Lutheran.
And what is that?
"Spiritually dead" means_______________
quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
I disagree it is merely embellishing the life of sin. Paul states (here and elsewhere) that we are dead in our trespasses and sins. Clearly this is the plain teaching of this passage.
Wrong.
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Romans 10:1)
--Brethren are believers. He is writing to the believers of the church in Rome. He is teaching them about salvation, and also about what Israel's position is. I quoted you the first verse of the chapter. Here is the last:
But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. (Romans 10:21)
--The believers in Rome were not lost people, and they could endure the teaching that Paul had for them.
Wrong. It plainly says that faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It does not say Christ at all. You are reading into Scripture what you want to read, not what the Scripture is saying.
No it isn't. So why not just believe what the Bible says here instead of reading into it your own preconceived ideas.
I trust you are speaking for yourself.
The verse does say: Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I couldn't be any clearer.
The trouble with that position is that the Bible doesn't teach it. Nowhere have you posted a verse that says that faith is a gift to the lost--nowhere! You simply read into the text what you want to. But Romans 10:17 does not say what you want it to say.
But that is okay for you to believe. I don't believe in Total Depravity, and thus I don't believe the above. I think you have some wrong definitions and have taken them to an extreme.
I would think it means your totally sinful....It means you’re a lousy, stinking, no-good, dirty stinking sinner. It means you will do bad stuff and you like to do bad stuff. Doing bad stuff is one of your best things. You lie, cheat on your taxes, get all torqued-off at people, spread bad rumors, get angry at stupid things and take things that are not yours. It means that you are rude, vain, and selfish. It also means that you are capable of doing the worst things you can imagine…committing murder, adultery, and doing violent harm to others. This is all IN YOU and the odds that you will commit these horrible acts are extremely favorable....Been there & done all that!
They don't get it, the word of God is God's part, the HEARING is our part.
You can sit under the preaching of God's word all day long, won't do you a bit of good unless you truly listen to it and believe it.
If God's word magically regenerated every person that audibly hears it, then every person that goes to church would be saved.
God provides the Word, it is our duty and responsibility to listen and believe.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Baloney, then his "brethren" need saved, in which the context proves they are not, because he desires them to be so.
Brethren you are saying are saved (in your context) yet need saved (in THE context).
You'll go to any end to be right. Well, guess what, you're completely wrong.
The "brethren" are the already saved to whom he writes. The context is him describing his desire to the LOST. Hence Romans 10:17 is to the lost.
That you fail to make this distinction is quite honestly, very very sad.
Quit your twisting context and Scripture. I knew you'd do it again.
Romans 10 is speaking of the lost, in context.
Nice try, wrong again. Actually, bad try. You can't see context.
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You are correct, we are all of those things, and capable of any evil.
But we are also able to do good things, even the worst man tells the truth at times. Telling the truth is not sin, it is good. Even the most evil men love their children and families. This is why Jesus said we being evil know HOW (read and see for yourself) to give good gifts to our children. Jesus said men do good to those who love them.
The scriptures do not teach that 100% of what unregenerate man does is evil.
preacher4truth
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You're incorrect: Wrong. Everything man does is useless and he remains wicked in works and at enmity with God until in Christ. Go read Ephesians, Romans, Colossians. Titus.
You still hold to conditional election, right? That the good you claim above earns your election to salvation, and you deny it is all up to God still (unconditional) correct?
Listen, I know what I was 16 months ago....It wasn't that far away. And it is the only thing makes sense to me in the realm of possibilities. Now perhaps it was different for you...only you can say. I do feel though that people who fall in line with DoG theology have very similar experiences.....Ive spoken to several prominent Calvinist, shared there testimony's & BINGO, mostly the same. That could be a reason you have so many Calvinists completely committed to it IE it fits their salvation stories.
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