The origin of evil and the decrees of God

This is something I can definitely be confident about. In the case "non-empiricals" such as theology is boils down to two things, interpretation and most importantly FAITH.

 

you will have to convince me.....by nature Im arrogant (had to throw that in...hehehe) & a skeptic. Plus Im a dumb Marine. speak s_l_o_w_l_y & don't use big words.

 

That theory extends pretty much to life. Dont Doctors & Lawyers "Practice" ....however Ive learned this little thing I will share with you Dave & that is, " Bedside manners is no substitute for the right diagnosis"

 

Skan
:thumbs::thumbs: correct....the mosquito might be carrying malaria...orsomething else

EWF.....has missed this a bit.....EWF

http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/wd_index.htm
EWF.... WR Downing listen to God and Worms ..... scroll down to it

 

Oh I got a better one.....Isaiah 45: 7 .
I form the light & create darkness. I bring prosperity & create disaster; I, the Lord do all these things.

Splain dat!

Icono....before I listen to him....who is he?

 

Think that the Cals/Arms are really closer together than farther apart in area of Sotierology than one wouuld believe based upon various posters here on the BB!

At this point in time, believe that the Bible teaches us that indeed God has both a permissive and a determinent Will, and that in all things, whether caused/allowed, works all things out to His glory according to his divine Will and purposes!

 

EWF......Listen first...I guarentee if you stick with the whole sermon,it will be most helpful...He is a friend of Al Martin:thumbs::thumbs::wavey:

I could not believe how he tied in so much in this sermon....this was a major wake up call...lol.. I think I had hair before i listened to this sermon,haha. i had to listen several times to pick up much I missed....I could not process it all in one sitting..you will see, enjoy![I am not sure if enjoy...is quite the right word.....it might be somewhat convicting]

 

Yes.

But what you have avoided is admitting that THOUGH God does not bring evil to pass by his positive agency- he planned and purposed that evil should exist.

God planned to build a world where he intended that men in that world should sin and go to hell.

What sets you and I apart from "non-cals", since you are more specifically an Arminian which means you have an orthodox and consistent theology is this:

You and I do not believe that God's eternal purposes can EVER be thwarted.

As some of the "non-cals" said themselves, they believe that God's purposes CAN and ARE thwarted all of the time.

So when a man sins, they do not see that as you and I do-

That God hates sin, and that God does not positively bring it to pass, but that God always intended for that sin to come to pass that God ordered the universe so that it would infallibly come to pass and that God always intended to use that sin for his own glory and that God purposed it for that reason before the world began.

But these people without a theology cannot fathom that. They think it means that God is the author of sin.

They say that God NEVER purposed for that man to commit that sin.

And when that man goes to hell, they do not see it as you and I do-
They think that man went to hell against the eternal purposes of God.

They think God NEVER intended, never purposed his damnation.

They think that man defied the eternal purposes of God.

This is insufficient.

They are not based ONLY on his omniscience.

They are based on his PURPOSES.

 

Skan,

i was working in a warehouse going through college when i first heard this sermon....it starts out slow...by the title I was thinking this seems odd....it has been one of the most stunning messages i have ever heard....and it taught me that everything in scripture has a divine purpose....

Give it a good listen...let me know what you think....I listened to it a few times each year since, and still learn from it.
How he ties it back to the cross, is masterful...I believe God given wisdom
if several in here get to listen ..we could do a thread on it,,,it speaks to many areas of our life and understanding.

 

Thank you iconoclast.

This is what I have been trying to get Skandelon to see for months.

He does not understand compatabalism and he has not spoken with enough mainstream Calvinists deeply enough to get it.

He has literally said that all of us who say God PURPOSED for sin to exist and God ORDAINED it are outside the scope of mainstream Calvinists.

Of course that means that all the Puritans were outside the scope of mainstream Calvinism.

So was Jonathan Edwards and so is John Piper and Bruce Ware- oh- and so is John Calvin.

 

God allowed Evil and Sin to come to pass into His creation in order that through it, His plan of redeeming man and the Creation out from it would be even greater than what man and the creation was subjected to by falls of satan and man...

the Lord cannot cause evila nd sin, against His holy nature, did cause to bring to pass into History His great master plan to redeem out of the wreak caused by it His creation, and those whom He would save...

God used the acts and plans of eveil/wicked men and Devil to accomplish his great plans and purposes...

See it as God determining to bring glory to Himself out of the wicked schemes and plans of Satan and men, that he determined to both directly cause and to use their ways to bring to pass His plan and purposes!

 

God's positive agency is ANYTHING that occurs that is good.

God is actively bringing that to pass.

When a sinner is saved, when a saint gives to missions or helps some hungry family with groceries all for the glory of God, etc, etc, etc...

God's passive involvement has to do with when ANYTHING evil occurs.

A man wishes to worship a false god, or to harm his neighbor with evil motives-

The evil that exists there exists because God has removed his moral goodness from that situation.

Just as darkness ensues when light vacates so does evil ensue when God's goodness vacates.

Since God is not moving IN but rather moving OUT in those situations it cannot rightly be said that those situations are proximately caused by God and his positive agency.

But when good takes place, God is not moving OUT there- no- the good is taking place for the very reason that God is moving INTO that situation.

 

I understand that and have from the beginning.

What God takes pleasure in was not the subject of the thread.

I did not say, nor imply, nor hint at the idea that God takes pleasure in evil.

If they want to hear "Spaghetti monsters eat pink elephants," when I say, "God's eternal purposes are NEVER thwarted- I cannot help that.

People can hear what they want to hear.

I am not responsible for what people want to hear.

I am responsible for what I say.

And what I say is what YOU BELIEVE-

That EVERYTHING that EVER HAPPENS FOREVER happens according to the eternal purposes of God.
Now God wants some things for what they are and he wants other things for what he will bring from them- but everything happens because he wants it to happen.

Now if they read that and hear, "Tinkerbell has a thing for Captain Hook,"- well I can't help that.