When & Where did the true Church begin?

I think that there are signs of the first church and they seem to be baptist were shown in Exodus 16:8.

 

I'll say this again. Your view is based on a questionable translation of I Cor 12:13, where "by one Spirit" could just as easily be translated "in one spirit."
The King James translators injected their own view of the Universal Church onto the Greek "en."

My disagreement is not with scripture, but with your exegesis of scripture.

1. But it could have existed before Pentecost, since Christ had died, was buried, rose again and ascended.
2. See my take in the first paragraph above.
3. The local church I serve is the body. Just is Paul described FBC Corinth as "YE are THE body of Christ." I Cor 12:27
4. But there was a body of regenerate believers before Christ finished his work. They were called the Twelve (Except Judas, of course). There was a regenerate body of believes in the upper room which gathered several days before Pentecost. They had a business meeting.

 

And it was Peter who called Jesus the Pastor and Overseer of our souls (KJV Shepherd and Bishop). (I Peter 2:24)

Paul referred to the elders at Ephesus as Pastors (Shepherds) and Overseers (Bishops). Elders, pastors and bishops of what? Why, the congregation at Ephesus. A real, living church. Jesus was Shepherd and Overseer of a real congregation that evangelized, baptized, fellowshipped, had the Lord's Supper, and operated with his power.

Just as we do today.

 

'In one spirit" makes baptism water baptism, not Spirit Baptism.

Now, maybe I'm not understanding. Are you saying that no one was saved before Jesus' death and resurrection? And that no one was saved before Pentecost?

Or are you drawing a distiinction between "regenerate" and "saved?"

I'll reserve comment until I have a better understanding of what you're saying.

 

Those who translate I Cor 12:13 as baptism BY the Holy Spirit: How do we reconcile that rendering with the clear statement by John the Baptist that Jesus is the baptizer WITH the Holy Ghost and WITH fire? If Jesus is the baptizer at Pentecost, the the Holy Spirit baptized no one; and the Greek "en" in I Cor 12:13 should be translated "In,." or "with."

Now, Peter also preached that those who repent would receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, an obvious reference to the indwelling of a new believer.

There is also the filling with the Spirit, which does not appear to be a permanent gift, but given to believers when warranted.

But baptism by the Spirit? I would be hesitant to build the doctrine of the Universal Church around this disputed rendering.

 

Heh, heh, heh. Very good, John.

 

I had repeatedly asked specifically for "scripture [that] buttresses the necessity of this before the called-out-gathering-of-believers could be considered a church?". You listed only one that had relevant info about the specifics of my question.

Also, I found your tone condescending and patronizing.

 

But notice that the 3,000 were added unto them, Who were them? that would be the 120 that were in the upper room before the out pooring of the Holy Spirit.

Act 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)


If they were added, would not that indicate they were already a Church?

 

I believe that the"Age of Grace began with Jesus Christ:

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

What does the seal have to do withtheChurch? My understanding is that the seal is the promise to each believer that we are His for all eternity. We are given the Holy Spirit as a seal of that promise.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

I believe that would be correct:

for also in one Spirit we all to one body were baptized, whether Jews or Greeks, whether servants or freemen, and all into one Spirit were made to drink, 1 Cor 12:13 Young's Literal Translation

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13 KJV

 

Thanks, kyredneck, for contributing the Young's translation.

Now, the question is, is the word "Spirit" the Holy Spirit or something else?

If one believes it's Spirit, a good rendering would be "led by the Spirit, we are all baptized into the body"

If not, a good rendering would be "in a spirit of unity, we are all baptized..."

 

There were "regenerated" believers also in the OT times BUT

Think main point here is that "something" BRAND NEW and unique happened at pentacost, as that was date and time and place wherethe HS FIRST came to earth to Baptise us in Body of Cjrist and indwell all of us, as Messiah had come and done His work to allow Him todo than His work!

 

It will be helpful if you will answer my questions with answers instead of questions.

So, again: Was no one saved before Jesus rose from the dead? Before Pentecost?
Area you distinguishing between salvation and regeneration?

God may justly save one from the penalty of sin because of the Son's finished work; part of that work is to impute Christ's righteousness; and the Holy Spirit takes us residence in a new believer.

Abraham believed God and his faith was credited to him as righteousness. He was declared just because of his faith. Abraham was saved.

This was before Christ rose from the dead. This was before the Holy Spirit permanently indwelt believers.

 

But,

The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus was the baptizer with the HS at Pentecost. The HS did not baptize anybody.

We can talk about what happened at Pentecost, but the HS's forming of the church was not it.