Paula White

Arbo · Aug 31, 2011

I prefer to watch Paula Dean.

freeatlast · Aug 31, 2011

JesusFan said: ↑

hope that you never knew anyone who ever got raped!

I was just stating that your reasoning of what Paul meant conflicting with mine, and that there is no legit way to say that yours is "better" than mine!
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I don't know why you hope that as it is a common happening. I wish it were not, but it is. Also as a matter of fact I have known someone and she was a Christian and she was very open about it when she explained to me what happened. The example I gave is ample for this situation.

Alive in Christ · Aug 31, 2011

Amy G....

Where do you get this idea? I don't know of scripture that says she had a primary role of teacher. But it's certainly possible I missed it.
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Post 16 in this tread. :wavey:

...and the odds are extremely high that there where many many MANY more then just that one example.

Baptist4life · Aug 31, 2011

annsni said: ↑

Fully agreed. I do believe the church would be severely unhealthy if it were not for women and women can take a prominent role in the church but not be in leadership over men. I've said it before - our church has probably more than half of the staff as women and they keep the church running from children's ministries, women's ministries, the preschool, managing the small groups, logistics of the building use, website management, counseling, etc. The weekend that the women are away at the ladies' retreat, the men always say that they really know that we're gone by the way things go on Sunday (certainly never as smooth as if we are there). But that doesn't mean we need to be the senior pastors at all.
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:laugh::laugh: So true, so true! In our church too! God bless!

annsni · Aug 31, 2011

Alive in Christ said: ↑

Amy G....

Post 16 in this tread. :wavey:

...and the odds are extremely high that there where many many MANY more then just that one example.
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OK - So you posted:

Prisca (also called Priscilla) and her husband Aquilla, two of Paul's "fellow-laborers" in the Gospel, instructed Apollos in the way of God according to Acts 18:24-26. That this instruction was not "out of order" is clear from the context, the beneficial results, and Paul's commendation of Prisca's ministry. The record in Acts tells us that Apollos was well-versed in the Scriptures and had been instructed in the way of the Lord. He both taught and preached in the synagogue at Ephesus where Priscilla and Aquilla, having heard him, took him and "expounded to him the way of God more accurately."

This account is an interesting one for a number of reasons. It is the only occurrence after the Gospels in which the New Testament records that a Christian woman taught an adult male religious leader. The phrase "to them" found in the Western text and the use of the term "expounded" imply more than a single occurrence, suggesting that Prisca and Aquilla took Apollos into their house church and grounded him thoroughly in the faith.

Also it is clear from the rest of the passage that their teaching prepared Apollos for outstanding effectiveness in his preaching and evangelistic ministry. Acts 18:28 says that after Apollos left Ephesus with the encouragement and recommendation of the "brethren," which means the Christian assembly, "he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah." Here we see an account of a woman teacher, along with her husband, educating an already learned man of great ability and preparing him for his greatest accomplishments in the Gospel. This example would seem to set a good precedent for women and seminary professors and Bible school teachers.

In the article on women pastors, we have already discussed the prominence Paul and Luke give to Prisca as the more outstanding leader as compared to her husband by naming her before him, contrary to universal ancient cultural practice. In light of this fact, it cannot be maintained that Aquilla was really the one who taught Apollos and led their house church. The most likely scenario is that Prisca was the main teacher and pastor with the assistance and support of her husband
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The Scripture mentioned is:

Acts 18:24-26 "Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and explained to him the way of God more accurately."

OK - So I will say that the passage says nothing about Priscilla being the primary teacher and her husband being only an assistant. That is making up what is not there and that is a dangerous thing. Additionally, we see CLEAR instruction from Paul in the Scriptures. Do we write that off? I guess so, huh?

Tom Butler · Aug 31, 2011

Alive in Christ said: ↑

Right on schedule. Iconoclast shows up with his nonsensical drivel....
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Well, then, let me join Iconoclast with an endorsement of his drivel.

Jerome · Aug 31, 2011

annsni said: ↑

Just because her name was used first we now decide that she was the primary teacher and her husband just supported her? I don't see that at all in the context of the passage.
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Charles Spurgeon preaching from Romans 16 (v. 3 "Priscilla and Aquila"):

This couple appears to have been advanced Christians, for they became instructors of others—and not merely teachers of the ignorant, but teachers of those who already knew much of the Gospel, for they instructed young Apollos—an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures. They taught him the way of God more perfectly and therefore we may be sure were deep-taught Christians themselves.
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I should not wonder but he put them in order according to quality rather than according to the rule of sex. He named Priscilla, first, because she was first in energy of character and attainments in Divine Grace. There is a precedence which, in Christ, is due to the woman when she becomes the leader in devotion and manifests the stronger mind in the things of God. It is well when Nature and Grace both authorize our saying, “Aquila and Priscilla,” but it is not amiss when Grace outruns Nature and we hear of, “Priscilla and Aquila.”
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freeatlast · Aug 31, 2011

annsni said: ↑

OK - So you posted:

The Scripture mentioned is:

Acts 18:24-26 "Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and explained to him the way of God more accurately."

OK - So I will say that the passage says nothing about Priscilla being the primary teacher and her husband being only an assistant. That is making up what is not there and that is a dangerous thing. Additionally, we see CLEAR instruction from Paul in the Scriptures. Do we write that off? I guess so, huh?
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I would also point out that the limitations for what women can do are for a gathering such as a church or even today a bible study. They are not forbidden to share the truth with an individual. The restriction is for formal teaching positions.

Iconoclast · Aug 31, 2011

annsni said: ↑

Looking at that website, we see some things about the women running the site:

"Barbara and Gay received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the charismatic renewal, having been saved in earlier years."

Additionally, each and every one of them deny the clear teachings of Scripture and are pastors and/or fully endorse women pastors. I'm sorry but that is not a valid proof, IMO.
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:applause::applause::applause::applause:

Of course you are correct Ann.

Iconoclast · Aug 31, 2011

Tom Butler said: ↑

Well, then, let me join Iconoclast with an endorsement of his drivel.
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:applause: Some see it as the command of God...others see drivel...interesting....

Alive in Christ · Aug 31, 2011

Here is some more interesting documentation regarding women having prominant ministries in the early church.....

(From the link in post 17)

In the article on women pastors, we have already discussed the prominence Paul and Luke give to Prisca as the more outstanding leader as compared to her husband by naming her before him, contrary to universal ancient cultural practice. In light of this fact, it cannot be maintained that Aquilla was really the one who taught Apollos and led their house church. The most likely scenario is that Prisca was the main teacher and pastor with the assistance and support of her husband.

This occurrence creates a difficulty for those who believe that Paul taught in I Timothy that Christian women are not qualified to teach on the basis of the creation order and the Fall. That difficulty is intensified by Paul's commendation of the many women who labored with him in the Gospel since one can hardly labor in the Gospel without preaching or teaching the Gospel. This thinking also runs contrary to the words of St. Peter on the day of Pentecost, who interpreted the women proclaiming the mighty works of God publicly, as the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy that "Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy." A study of the ministry of Biblical prophets shows that prophecy was not limited to telling future events, but also included expounding God's Word and exhorting His people to turn to God and repent. So, for women to prophesy necessarily means that they preach and teach God's Word under His authority.

For example, Huldah spoke a prophetic word to the king and the high priest regarding the interpretation of the Scriptures found in Deut. 29:25-27 which had been troubling the king. (II Kings 22:8-20, II Chron 34:14-28) It also occurred in the prophecy of Mary (Lk. 1:46-56), who quoted several psalms and applied them to her divine pregnancy. Many other examples could be given, but these should suffice to demonstrate the relatedness of prophecy, teaching and proclaiming "God's Word." As a side note, it is interesting that both Mary and Elizabeth prophesied the inspired words of Scripture in Luke 1:39-56 at a time when Zechariah, Elizabeth's husband and a Jewish priest, was unable to speak due to his lack of faith in the angel's inspired message.

It is evident to anyone who will observe with an open mind that God does, indeed, empower and call women to teach and preach His Word and that His Spirit abundantly blesses their efforts with good fruit. Therefore, since God does not forbid what He Himself initiates, another explanation of the puzzling New Testament passages must be found. Extensive research of these puzzling passages and a summary of possible interpretations will be given in a later article. For now, let us look more closely at the accomplishments of women teachers in the early church.

In Paul's letter to Timothy (II Timothy 1:5) he tells us that the apostle Timothy followed the faith of his grandmother Lois and his mother Eunice. Chapter 3:15 tells us that from childhood Timothy had learned the sacred Scriptures. Timothy's mother was Jewish, but his father was a Gentile. We may infer that Lois and Eunice taught Timothy the Scriptures, introduced him to Jesus, and brought him up in the faith. Evidently they did a good job, for Timothy became Paul's closest assistant, accompanying him on his missionary travels and eventually becoming bishop of Ephesus.

Many women in the early and medieval church brought up their children to become major religious leaders by their prayers, example and teaching, Probably the most famous was Emmelia, mother of ten, four of whose children were canonized as saints. Her mother, Macrina the Elder, was a Christian martyr. Her sons, Gregory of Nyssa, Basil the Great and Peter became bishops. Her daughter, Macrina the Younger (327-379 A.D.), was a brilliant thinker and educator who greatly influenced her brothers' development, becoming fully responsible for Peter's education after her mother's death. She and her brother Basil founded a double monastery for men and women. There she taught, healed and prophesied for many years and established a hospital as large as a walled city. All four were declared saints by the Catholic church.

Some other women who followed in Priscilla's footsteps include Marcella (325-410 A.D.), whose Church of the Household in Rome became a center of study, prayer and charity. Marcella assisted Jerome in combating heresies and settling theological disputes. She inspired another woman, Fabiola, to establish the first hospitals in Rome, and Marcella established the first retreat for Christian women on the outskirts of that city. Under Marcella's leadership, Paula and her daughter Eustochium assisted Jerome in his Latin translation of the Bible from Greek and Hebrew. These women traveled to Bethlehem and dedicated the rest of their lives to translate, revise, and correct the manuscripts, several of which Jerome dedicated to them. There, Paula founded three convents and a monastery, establishing the model for Scripture study and copying in monasteries which continued until the Reformation.

Many other important women teachers could be mentioned. One of the most outstanding was Hilda (614-660 A.D.), abess of the convent at Hartlepool, County Durham. In 657 she founded a double monastery A.D. for men and women at Whitby in Yorkshire, which became renowned as the leading school of theology and literature in 7th-century England. Five of Hilda's monks became bishops. One of them, John of Beverly, baptized the Venerable Bede, a medieval historian. A sixth, Caedmon, was the first known English poet. When Hilda heard his gift, she took him into the monastery from serfdom, taught him Bible stories, and encouraged him to write poems about them. Caedmon's lyrics in the Anglo-Saxon tongue brought the faith alive to many who did not know Latin. Hilda also raised the king's daughter, Aelfled, from infancy and educated the princess to become her successor. Bede wrote of Hilda, "She never failed to return thanks to her Maker or publicly or privately to instruct the flock committed to her charge." May the same be said of us.

Perhaps the most important consideration in favor of all Christians becoming teachers of the Christian faith is the need for maturity and growth in the church. Hebrews 5:12 says, "For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of God's Word." Those who remain perpetual students without passing on their knowledge to others are rebuked by God's Word, not commended. It is natural, proper and the duty of those who have learned the truth to teach others also. The church can hardly spread the Good News of salvation if the majority of its members are prevented from doing so on account of their gender!

Learning without a goal to teach results in lesser achievement. The best students are future teachers because the best way to learn something really well is to take responsibility for teaching it to others. In that way, you will have to learn it thoroughly, be able to put it into your own words, and commit yourself to living the message you teach. You will not be able to get away with paying lip service to the Gospel, for your students be watching you! While less is expected of a student, a teacher must set a good example.

I believe God wants ALL mature Christians to teach His Word. Our society allows women to teach. It's high time the church caught up! The world isn't refraining from teaching all the evil it can, so why should Christian women refrain from teaching what is good? It is foolish to waste the knowledge and teaching gifts of Christian women while the lost fill the airwaves with filth. The Great Commission was given to all, and all who are able have an obligation to our Lord to teach and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Amy.G · Aug 31, 2011

Arbo said: ↑

I prefer to watch Paula Dean.
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:laugh::laugh:

Much healthier!

Jerome · Aug 31, 2011

Published March 15, 2011: a history of seventeenth-century Baptist women preachers:

Amazon.com A Company of Women Preachers by Curtis W. Freeman

women came to exercise considerable influence and authority among the early churches. . . .in early Baptist life in England, women did preach well and often
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"Splendid. A most exciting Baptist history. This material profoundly challenges popular perceptions of women in Baptist life and deserves the widest possible readership." —Dr. Ian Randall, Director of Research at Spurgeon's College, London
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Iconoclast · Aug 31, 2011

Jerome said: ↑

Published March 15, 2011: a history of seventeenth-century Baptist women preachers:

Amazon.com A Company of Women Preachers by Curtis W. Freeman
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Pragmatic rebellion is still rebellion no matter when it takes place....there are always those who want to rebel and undermine the clear teaching of the word.
Jerome....do you think it was okay to offer strange fire before the Lord???

1And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
2And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
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Jerome...what if paula white put her hand to the ark...do you think it would be different???

righteousdude2 · Sep 1, 2011

Or NOT!

Amy.G said: ↑

:laugh::laugh:

Much healthier!
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She is so good at her talent, that just watching her causes me to gain pounds! :thumbs:

annsni · Sep 1, 2011

Jerome said: ↑

Charles Spurgeon preaching from Romans 16 (v. 3 "Priscilla and Aquila"):
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OK - So he's saying that she was the leader in maturity and devotion to God but that doesn't mean that in this case, Priscilla was the lead teacher and her husband took second fiddle. That would be putting words in Spurgeon's mouth and reading into Scripture that which is not there. I would also say that to say that she was more mature spiritually because she was named first would be a leap as well so I would have issue with Mr. Spurgeon's thoughts on this.

annsni · Sep 1, 2011

freeatlast said: ↑

I would also point out that the limitations for what women can do are for a gathering such as a church or even today a bible study. They are not forbidden to share the truth with an individual. The restriction is for formal teaching positions.
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This I agree with. I would be comfortable presenting the Gospel to an unsaved person or, like here on BB, discuss theology with a believer who is male. I do believe that it is imperative that we realize in both of the verses we see Priscilla acting alongside her husband privately working with an individual. It would be quite the far leap to say that because I met with my husband to speak to John about some doctrine, that I am taking a leadership role and so thus I am endorsing women pastors. That is what people are doing with this passage and since it would contradict Paul's teaching, I think we have a problem with coming to that conclusion.

annsni · Sep 1, 2011

Alive in Christ said: ↑

Here is some more interesting documentation regarding women having prominant ministries in the early church.....

(From the link in post 17)
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An article from rebellious women is not great support (I already discussed that website and the women in it in a previous post) but their assertions are so ludicrous that I can't believe you even posted that.

freeatlast · Sep 1, 2011

annsni said: ↑

This I agree with. I would be comfortable presenting the Gospel to an unsaved person or, like here on BB, discuss theology with a believer who is male. I do believe that it is imperative that we realize in both of the verses we see Priscilla acting alongside her husband privately working with an individual. It would be quite the far leap to say that because I met with my husband to speak to John about some doctrine, that I am taking a leadership role and so thus I am endorsing women pastors. That is what people are doing with this passage and since it would contradict Paul's teaching, I think we have a problem with coming to that conclusion.
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Exactly! This includes those who try and get around the command for the woman's role in the church or bible study by using their husband or the pastor as a sort of license to stand in the role of teacher where men are present. They willfully rebel against the Lord when doing this end run.

JesusFan · Sep 1, 2011

freeatlast said: ↑

Exactly! This includes those who try and get around the command for the woman's role in the church or bible study by using their husband or the pastor as a sort of license to stand in the role of teacher where men are present. They willfully rebel against the Lord when doing this end run.
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You do know the biblical principle of "headship" right?

The Woman IS covered under the spiritual authority of either her husband, or the lead spiritually male authoriities in the Church!

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