Are There Such as "carnal" Christians?

[JesusFan]

Those who are really saved by the Grace of the Lord, but choose to live in their own might and find themselves often falling in sin problems?

 

[stilllearning]

1 Corinthians 3:1
“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ.”

 

[beameup]

Those who are really saved by the Grace of the Lord, but choose to live in their own might and find themselves often falling in sin problems?

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christians are self-directed ("carnal") rather than Spirit-directed. In such a state, one really cannot clearly hear the Holy Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. Romans 8:5-6

 

[Iconoclast]

There are acts of carnality in the life of a believer...but if anyone lives carnally they are not God's child...they are in the realm of death.
The corinthians were being called out on this sin of sectarianism.....they were acting "as natural men".....acting "as flesh".....out of character.
What is known of as The carnal christian heresy...is used to make excuses for all the false professors who made a hypocritical profession of faith but are still in the flesh...and no christians at all.:thumbs:

 

[beameup]

A "Carnal" Christian does not necessarily indicate an outward behavior ("bad behavior").
A "Carnal" Christian could "appear" spiritual but still be directed by Ego.
An Ego-driven Christian is a Self-directed Christian but is not a Spirit-directed Christian.

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Matt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Psalm 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

1 Cor 3:12-15 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire;
and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built
thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[DHK]

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? (1 Corinthians 3:3)

Ye--Corinthian believers.
Carnal.
= Carnal Christians. How can one deny the clear teaching of the Scriptures?

 

[Iconoclast]

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? (1 Corinthians 3:3)

Ye--Corinthian believers.
Carnal.
= Carnal Christians.

How can one deny the clear teaching of the Scriptures?[/

QUOTE]

DHK...
here is a prime example where you were offered a sermon to listen to, that explains the greek words involved and gives light to the passage starting in 1cor 2:9...and going through chapter 3...
You refused to listen to the sermon then...it is still posted on my reply to you,you can look it up and listen to the whole sermon if you want to learn and no longer repeat your error on this!
you ask;

How can one deny the clear teaching of the Scriptures?[/

If you do not listen to the sermons...actually I offered you three if I recall...you will continue to deny the clear teaching ,of the scripture...not only on this issue...but you will be denying the Spirit's work in sanctifying grace, and be giving false assurance to many who might not even know the Lord!
That's how it can happen.:thumbsup:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=6709225934

http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/am_carnal.htm

 

[DHK]

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? (1 Corinthians 3:3)

Ye--Corinthian believers.
Carnal.
= Carnal Christians. QUOTE]

DHK...
here is a prime example where you were offered a sermon to listen to, that explains the greek words involved and gives light to the passage starting in 1cor 2:9...and going through chapter 3...
You refused to listen to the sermon then...it is still posted on my reply to you,you can look it up and listen to the whole sermon if you want to learn and no longer repeat your error on this!
you ask;


If you do not listen to the sermons...actually I offered you three if I recall...you will continue to deny the clear teaching ,of the scripture...not only on this issue...but you will be denying the Spirit's work in sanctifying grace, and be giving false assurance to many who might not even know the Lord!
That's how it can happen.:thumbsup:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=6709225934

http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/am_carnal.htm

I have no time to read your sermons.
I simply believe what the Bible says.
Paul was addressing Carnal Christians. They were believers and they were carnal. I believe what the Scripture says.

 

[revmwc]

Those who are really saved by the Grace of the Lord, but choose to live in their own might and find themselves often falling in sin problems?

First the unbeliever is called the natural man by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:14.
That means the unbeliever is a "Psuchikos" which means of or belonging to breath having the nature and characteristics of the breath the principal of animal life, which men have in common with the brutes governed by breath
the sensuous nature with its subjection to appetite and passion

So that is one type of human on this earth.

Next Romans 8:7 Paul says to be carnally minded is emnity with God. Carnally means a person is living in the "Sarx" meaning :
flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts the body the body of a man
used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship born of natural generation the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature" without any suggestion of depravity the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God
But notice this is not in reference to the natural man but in Romans 8:8 Paul uses the same word for Flesh, of those living in the Flesh. In 1 Corinthians 3 Paul says they are carnal which is "Sarkikos" this is derived from the word "Sarx" and means fleshly, carnal having the nature of flesh, i.e. under the control of the animal appetites governed by mere human nature not by the Spirit of God having its seat in the animal nature or aroused by the animal nature human: with the included idea of depravity pertaining to the flesh
to the body: related to birth, linage, etc
and is in reference to the belivers at Corinth living in the flesh in other words living in sin as believers. They are Sarkikos people a second type of human living on earth today.

Then we see also in 1 Corinthians 3:1 verse 1 Paul uses yet another term for man, the "Pneumatikos" which means: relating to the human spirit, or rational soul, as part of the man which is akin to God and serves as his instrument or organ that which possesses the nature of the rational soul belonging to a spirit, or a being higher than man but inferior to God belonging to the Divine Spirit of God the Holy Spirit one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God pertaining to the wind or breath; windy, exposed to the wind, blowing
When Paul says he could not speak to them as Spiritual or "Pneumatikos" yet a third type of person living today.
Paul uses the same word in 1 Corinthians 2:14 for the things of the of the spirit of God are " Pneumatikos" discerned.

So three types of people live today:
Psuchikos- Natural man unbeliever
Sarkikos- Carnal believer
Pneumatikos- Spirutal believer.
All seen in the writings of Paul. We all fall into one catagory or the other. Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 3 that some will be saved and receive a reward of wood, hay and stubble but be saved for eternity yet though as through the fire. That would be the Sarkikos believer, saved but with no eternal rewards because they lived in the flesh as believers.

 

[Iconoclast]

I have no time to read your sermons.
I simply believe what the Bible says.
Paul was addressing Carnal Christians. They were believers and they were carnal. I believe what the Scripture says.

DHK,

These sermons are in audio form...for your convienience.

I have no time to read your sermons.

This is an admission of your poor view of the word of God.
I and others are telling you that you are believing and teaching error.....not only here, but on other topics........and your response is...You have no time to look at offered correction
So...you tell Archangel, P4T , myself and others that we offer no scripture.
We tell you we already have.....and just like here in this post you have no time!!! That is just swell DHK.

I simply believe what the Bible says.

You say that...but evidently what you mean is...you say what you think it should say..in your world...but actually refuse to look at what it says when it does not match your own philosophy.....you really need to examine yourself.

Paul was addressing Carnal Christians. They were believers and they were carnal. I believe what the Scripture says

So you say.....does not seem like it however.

 

[Iconoclast]

So three types of people live today:
Psuchikos- Natural man unbeliever
Sarkikos- Carnal believer
Pneumatikos- Spirutal believer.

You have the correct words..but the wrong conclusion:thumbsup:

 

[DHK]

DHK,

These sermons are in audio form...for your convienience.


This is an admission of your poor view of the word of God.
I and others are telling you that you are believing and teaching error.....not only here, but on other topics........and your response is...You have no time to look at offered correction
So...you tell Archangel, P4T , myself and others that we offer no scripture.
We tell you we already have.....and just like here in this post you have no time!!! That is just swell DHK.

I make it a policy not to go and waste my time reading the links other people post.

If you want me to post links I can do the same. I don't want to listen to other people's sermons. I want your engagement in this debate. That is what this forum is for--debate: engaging one another in meaningful dialog. If you can't express yourself or defend your position without going to another person's website then you shouldn't post.

IMO the rules ought to be fair across the board.
When the Oneness Pentecostals were allowed to post on the board (they are now banned), they were only allowed to post what they themselves knew and could express. Links to other websites were strictly prohibited. (It not only limited their "ammunition," it limited their advertisement of their false religion). If they couldn't express what they believed in their own words then they couldn't post. A person is commanded to be able to defend himself:

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1 Peter 3:15)
--I wonder how many websites Peter had access to??

 

[revmwc]

So three types of people live today:
Psuchikos- Natural man unbeliever
Sarkikos- Carnal believer
Pneumatikos- Spirutal believer.

You have the correct words..but the wrong conclusion:thumbsup:

Of course Paul used them the same way as shown in the verses and places as used.
Psuchikos- Natural man as stated by Paul
Sarkikos- carnally minded Paul stating to the Corinthians who were believers
Pneumatikos- Paul in saying I wish I could speak to you as Spiritual again to the Corinthians believers.
So where did Paul use these incorrectly to refer to those people groups? Just spelled it out as Paul did and gave where and how he used them. So give your conclusion based on how the words are used in scripture.
Also your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3 passage that states a person will be saved yet so by or through fire and have no rewards, if not a carnal Christian without rewards then who would be the one whose reward is consumed and yet they are still saved? Saved is only used of believers. Sounds a lot like a believer who wasn't operating under the influence of the Holy Spirit and was operating in the flesh yet still saved.

 

[beameup]

So three types of people live today:
Psuchikos- Natural man unbeliever
Sarkikos- Carnal believer
Pneumatikos- Spirutal believer.

All seen in the writings of Paul. We all fall into one catagory or the other. Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 3 that some will be saved and receive a reward of wood, hay and stubble but be saved for eternity yet though as through the fire. That would be the Sarkikos believer, saved but with no eternal rewards because they lived in the flesh as believers.

There are many reasons why a new believer will "fall back" into being "carnal". All men (and women) are driven by their ego.
That is what we were born with. That was the "original sin" of Satan. Natural Man wants to rule their own "kingdom"
... maybe head of house, maybe head of a "flock", or head of some "employees", etc., etc.
This builds their "Self-Esteem" EGO.

Some new believers are not given proper "discipleship" and so fall-back into Self.
Some believers feel that they just "are not worthy" or that God will make some great demands on them.
All these deceptions originate from Satan who does not want you living a Holy Spirit directed life.

Matt 11:30 - For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[revmwc]

There are many reasons why a new believer will "fall back" into being "carnal". All men (and women) are driven by their ego.
That is what we were born with. That was the "original sin" of Satan. Natural Man wants to rule their own "kingdom"
... maybe head of house, maybe head of a "flock", or head of some "employees", etc., etc.
This builds their "Self-Esteem" EGO.

Some new believers are not given proper "discipleship" and so fall-back into Self.
Some believers feel that they just "are not worthy" or that God will make some great demands on them.
All these deceptions originate from Satan who does not want you living a Holy Spirit directed life.


Matt 11:30 - For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Again my point was that those who are not operating by the leading of the spirit for whatever reason are living by the Old Sin Nature or as a Sarkikos being which is of the flesh. That could be the fault of the win them and forget them crowd. Win them and then forget to disciple them and they revert back to their pre-salvation ways. They have been changed from natural human beings to operating in the flesh whatever the cause may be.

 

[beameup]

Again my point was that those who are not operating by the leading of the spirit for whatever reason are living by the Old Sin Nature or as a Sarkikos being which is of the flesh. That could be the fault of the win them and forget them crowd. Win them and then forget to disciple them and they revert back to their pre-salvation ways. They have been changed from natural human beings to operating in the flesh whatever the cause may be.

I forgot to add in my post that you provided good accurate information.

Psuchikos- Natural man unbeliever
Sarkikos- Carnal believer
Pneumatikos- Spirutal believer.

 

[DHK]

James is writing to "my brethren," believers in Christ.
He says:

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:4-5)

It is evident from verse 5 that the Spirit dwells within them. They are saved; indwelt by the Spirit of God, and yet at the same time so worldly that James says they are "the enemies of God." That is what I would call a "carnal Christian."

They have committed spiritual adultery. Instead of remaining true to the Lord, they have made friends with the world; they have left their true love, Jesus Christ, and have flirted with the world, the enemy of God. Some have jumped right in, so that not even the world can tell the difference between the Christians and the worldly heathen. That is where most of Christianity is today IMO. Carnal Christians abound.

 

[beameup]

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. James 1:1

The Gospel of Grace Alone for the Gentiles is found in the Pauline Epistles.

The Jewish Gospel of Grace + Works is found in the Hebrew Epistles.

The reason why many new believers fall back into the (carnal) "self-mode" is because they feel pressure to "perform works".
This pressure can be exerted by other Christians to "conform" in their particular congregation. Many simply "fall away" because of
this pressure of "works-righteousness" thinking that is what God expects of them. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
What God wants is for you to spiritually follow His Son and learn from His Son. Unfortunately all too many NEVER learn this.

Gal 5:16-18 "I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary
the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law"
No "law", zip, zero, nada. Neither man-made "expectations" or the 613 Jewish "laws".

 

[DHK]

The Gospel of Grace Alone for the Gentiles is found in the Pauline Epistles.

The Jewish Gospel of Grace + Works is found in the Hebrew Epistles

All the NT was written to believers, including Hebrews and James.
All the NT preach a message of salvation by grace through faith, James not excluded.

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; (James 1:2)
--The brethren here are Christian brethren, not Jews. The epistle is written to Christians, as is the rest of the NT. The Jews did not accept the NT, only the OT. There is no book in the NT written to the Jews. That would counter-productive. They wouldn't read it anyway.

 

[beameup]

I don't know how clearer the Holy Spirit could make it (unless He screamed in your ear):

Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles,
I Tim 2:7, ...I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, .... and a teacher of the Gentiles...
2 Tim 1:11
Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
I Cor 3:10
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon.

The whole "key" to understanding the Scriptures lies in recognition of the "foundation" of the Apostle Paul's epistles. Without this "key"
then all sorts of misunderstandings and false beliefs spring up. Of course, most Christians never have this "key" revealed to them.
Most Christians fail to reach a Spiritual state, but remain "Carnal" (Self-directed), vulnerable, and confused.

The understanding of this "key" will also lead you to understand the uniqueness - [oikonomia] - of the Chruch, the Gentile Bride of Christ.