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The disputed ending of Mark 16.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by rstrats, Oct 9, 2011.

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  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Why stick to only the 10? Let's do all 613.

    Arer you seeking to be under the Law and under it's curse?

    The disciples worshiped on the first day of the week. You've attempted to make this fact trivial. If the Scriptures said it more, what then? It has to say it how many times to be valid? Where do the Scriptures state to the NT church worship is to be done according to the Sabbath Day?

    They also worshiped other days. There is no mandate within the NT that we are to worship on the Sabbath.

    1 Corinthians 16:2 also alludes to first day gathering and giving. So you're incorrect with limiting it to the passages you've given.

    It doesn't really matter which day we worship. It's not a determinitive factor regarding salvation, nor are we to judge one anothers days of importance and days that one respects as holy or not.

    I also see nothing in Acts 20:7 suggesting that they gathered just because Paul happened to be in town. That's eisegetical.

    Is there something you gain by observing only on a certain day, specifically teh Sabbath day? Favor? Merit? Pride? Righteousness?

    You're a Baptist? Yes?
     
  2. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    When I quote a verse, I do so within context, that is why I do that.

    Secondly, we know that Jesus could not have risen earlier because we know he must have been dead for three days for theological reasons and other verses.
     
  3. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    preacher4truth,

    re: "Why stick to only the 10? Let's do all 613.’

    Because I think the 10 will be sufficient for my question.
     


    re: "Arer you seeking to be under the Law and under it's curse?"

    Of course not.
     
     

    re: "The disciples worshiped on the first day of the week."

    There is no incontrovertible scripture that says that.
     


    re: "If the Scriptures said it more, what then? It has to say it how many times to be valid?"

    Once would be enough, just like the Sabbath command.
     


    re: " Where do the Scriptures state to the NT church worship is to be done according to the Sabbath Day?"

    The Messiah said that the Sabbath is made for man. If it is not made for man to observe, what is it made for? Also, Hebrews 4:9 says: "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath." (Lamsa Translation From The Aramaic of the Peshitta).
     


    re: "They also worshiped other days. "

    That would be during the annual festivals.
     


    re: "
    1 Corinthians 16:2 also alludes to first day gathering and giving. "

    1 Corinthians 16:2 does not say that NT Christians observed the first day of the week for their day of rest and worship. The text merely says that everyone should "lay by him in store" on the first day of the week. The Wemouth reads: "Let each of you put on one side and store up at his home". Ballantine’s Translation reads: "Let each of you lay up at home". The Syriac, on this passage reads: "Let every one of you lay aside and preserve at home". And the New Catholic Edition of the Bible reads: ".......let each one of you put aside at home and lay up whatever he has a mind to". This verse says nothing about going to church on the first day or even assembling together on the first day.
     


    re: "You're a Baptist? Yes?"

    If being baptized in a Baptist Church, attending Baptist Church services and going to a predominately Baptist populated college makes me a Baptist, then yes.
     

    Look, I’m not saying that observing the first day of the week (or any other day of the week for that matter) is wrong. I’m only saying that there is no scripture for doing so. Nor is there any incontrovertible scripture that abrogates the observing of the seventh day Sabbath.
     
  4. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Ruiz,

    re: "...we know that Jesus could not have risen earlier because we know he must have been dead for three days for theological reasons and other verses."

    That is dependent on the day of crucifixion. If it was on the 5th day, then the resurrection had to be on the first day, but if it was on the 4th day, then the resurrection had to be on the seventh day. What we do know is that the crucifixion couldn't have taken place on the 6th day because of Matthew 12:40 and Luke 24:21.
     
  5. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Nor is there any incontrovertible scripture that abrogates the observing of the seventh day Sabbath.

    If this is the conclusion that you have come to then you need to worship on Saturday. As for me and my house, we disagree. We will worship everyday of the week with Sunday being a day to gather with other believers for corporate worship.
     
  6. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    I think every scholar holds he was in the ground for three days. The debate is whether that three day period is three days from the day he died or includes the day he died. The point is still valid either way. Predominantly, Mark 16 does not teach a new doctrine. Your presupposition that it does is false. The text in other places clearly shows the Resurrection on Sunday.
     
    #26 Ruiz, Oct 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2011
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Don't forget the Jewish reckoning of a day. It may not be a full 24 hours as we know a day.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    The 10 have never been sufficient. You're cherry-picking. That, and my doubts about you are growing as you say you're a Baptist.
     
  9. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Although we can regard Sunday as "the Lord's day," there is NO Biblical evidence that the Sabbath switched to Sunday.

    We can assemble to worship on the Lord's day to remember the resurrection, but doing so is NOT observing the Sabbath.

    Either we are under the Saturday Sabbath or we are not.

    I say the Christian life is the New Covenant fulfillment of the Sabbath.

    In Creation, God rested the seventh day because He completed the original work of Creation.
    When mankind sinned, we needed a redeemer. Christ had His work scheduled. The Sabbath, like the sacrifices, and all the Law were types and pictures of Christ, awaiting His work and completion.

    Christ finished the work of redemption and then sat down (Hebrews 1:3; 10:12), which a Levitical priest never did when entering the Holy of Holies. A priest offered the sacrifice, then continued to stand and leave. Christ sat down to demonstrate that the work was complete.

    Now, we are not subject to literal Sabbath day observances:
    Colossians 2
    16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


    We enter into His rest:
    Hebrews 4
    2: For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    3: For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    9: There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    10: For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
     
  10. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    sag38,

    re: "If this is the conclusion that you have come to then you need to worship on Saturday."

    If by Saturday you mean the seventh day of the week, then that is indeed what 7th Day Baptists do.
     
  11. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Ruiz,

    re: "Mark 16 does not teach a new doctrine."

    So you’re saying that the teaching of a first day resurrection was an old doctrine at the time?
     


    re: "The text in other places clearly shows the Resurrection on Sunday."

    You still haven’t provided any scriptures the clearly show that.
     
  12. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    What I am saying, is other texts clearly teach it.

    You are setting a standard for evidence to the hyperliteralism. However, exegetically, we don't need hyperliteralism to show the first day like we don't need it for the Trinity. The passages I cited clearly show Jesus rose on the first day of the week within it's context. If you want a hyperliteral text, we will not be able to meet your criteria. However, if you accepted standard exegetical rules, the evidence is clear... as clear as the Trinity.
     
  13. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    The problem is the scripture say three days and three nights not just three days.
     
  14. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Ruiz,

    re: "I think every scholar holds he was in the ground for three days. The debate is whether that three day period is three days from the day he died or includes the day he died."

    I suppose there are a few who debate that, but the predominate debate is whether the time has to include at least parts of three light periods AND at least parts of three dark periods or whether it only has to include parts of three calendar days.
     
  15. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    Two different issues. The Mark section neither addresses the three days and nights nor brings anymore light than other texts.
     
  16. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    It is impossible to get Him in the grave for three days and three night with a Friday crucifixion even if one manipulates the times that constitute a day and night. No amount of math or manipulation can have a Friday crucifixion and a Resurrection after three days and three nights with a Sunday resurrection. Also scripture never says He rose on Sunday. Most likely He rose at sun down on Saturday the 7th day Sabbath.
     
    #36 freeatlast, Oct 10, 2011
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  17. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Ruiz,

    re: "Two different issues."

    Hey, you’re the one that brought it up.
     
  18. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Ruiz,

    re: "What I am saying, is other texts clearly teach it."

    And yet you still haven’t provided them and explained how they do that.
     
  19. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    I did bring up the texts. Granted, someone corrected my numbers as I hit a "1" instead of a "2". Yet, I will provide them again, and in context they are all talking about the Resurrection.

    Matthew 28:1
    Luke 24:1
    John 20:1
    I Co 15:4
    Acts 10:40
     
    #39 Ruiz, Oct 10, 2011
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  20. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Ruiz,

    re: " I will provide them again, and in context they are all talking about the Resurrection."

    But you haven’t explained how they prove a first day resurrection.
     
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