Should I leave?

You should leave David Cloud's way of thinking. If that is who you are going after the only church you will ever find that is good enough is one that he pastors. Just my 2 cents.

 

You should leave fundamentalism and Cloud.

 

You should leave any type of thinking that you even admit is going to far. If these things are the only problems you have with this church I would hate to see what you would have done with most of the churches in Revelation 2-3. Why didn't Christ direct all those in the church at Thyatira or Sardis just to pack up and leave and to to Philadelphia church or Symrna church?

 

I think you're putting too many expectations on this church that just a few weeks ago you were certain was THE church for you. You even started a blog about it (but I notice that the blog about your church search has been deleted).

Go to church, sit and learn, worship and serve. You're not going to find a church that will meet all your criteria, but you can go to a church that you can serve in and that can help you to grow spiritually.

 

This is a good comment and generally I agree. We are quick to pack up and leave a church when God is often trying to use the church in our life.

 

Pat, I always remember the joke "If you think you've found a perfect church, don't join. It won't be perfect anymore." But seriously, here's my 2 cents....which will buy you nada...there's no such thing as a "perfect" church. I think if you attended David Cloud's church you'd find it equally imperfect. It's because churches are made up of people and we are far from perfect, this side of Heaven. There are always things in churches with which you will not see eye to eye. If the fellowship is good, if the preaching is Biblical and feeds your spirit, if the singing is worshipful and praising God, and if they're 85 - 90% in line with what you believe, stick it out for a while. You'd be surprised at what your being there might bring to the church. Remember we attend a church to SERVE the Lord. It's not what can the church give me it's what can I give the church.

 

:thumbsup: Good Advice - Jesus never said "Follow my followers, he said follow me". Do that and he will lead you to where he wants you to serve, grow, etc.

 

Who gives you the right to say that he doesn't have the "proper authority" to be in the pulpit?

Dude, please don't tell anyone that you're a fundamentalist.. you'll give us a bad name.

 

Think that there is a lot of misunderstanding between the saints on just HOW to understand that particular term!

 

So far, "traditionally IFB," but nothing to do with doctrine.

Okay....

I agree, it's good; again, nothing doctrinal here.

I'm a little rusty on Cloud; what part of separation, with this church, do you find preference as opposed to biblical separation?

What are your mountains/molehills? If it's doctrine, then yes, you should separate. If you're not happy with the way people dress, that's man-made doctrine. If you're not happy with the music, that's man-made doctrine.

The things that make IFBers fundamentalists have to do with the things of scripture and salvation; not with the "cultural norms" of society. Many of the things we see in our IFB churches are based on cultural norms, and scripture is used to justify them instead of the other way around (for example, you mention guitars as opposed to pianos; pianos weren't invented until the 1600's. Scripture talks about stringed instruments, which included harps; but how many harps do you see in IFB churches? Most of the instruments identified in the Old Testament were of a type that could be easily transported, as during those times nomadic influences were prevalent).

As for the paster, you didn't mention a key piece of information. If he established himself as the pastor, that's a problem. If he was voted in by the congregation, then they called him to the position, and that shouldn't be a problem.

What it all boils down to, really, is you. If you're not happy or comfortable there, I'd suggest you talk to the pastor, and give some serious prayer to the matter; because the longer you stay, the more your unhappiness/dissatisfaction will have a negative impact on the rest of the congregation. Either get it right with the pastor, or don't be a stumbling block to the rest.

 

I think we're being ignored...Pat is too fundy for us, we might get a little authority over him and he couldn't stand that for one second. We're supposed to be silent, never mind this isn't the church and that's not what Paul meant for one measly little second, but I'll just sit here and laugh at the whole thing because he's going to spend his whole life dissatisfied because there's no perfect church that agrees with him 1100%. :saint:

 

Stay where you are. If the doctrine is right, that is what matters.

Guitar? About 20 years ago our piano player had a serious heart attack and was out for a year. Believe it or not, no one else played piano, so I had to fill in on guitar. Best thing that ever happened to me, I had to attend every service. I also learned at least 100 hymns or more and still have my book. I personally prefer piano, but guitar is far better than no instrument, folks can't sing on key without an instrument. I still play guitar in church, and my pastor plays too. We play all traditional hymns except children's songs, but they are good too.

 

Why stop with guitars? Does your church use timbrels? If not, why not?