Where is the IFB Sytematic Theology?

[Squire Robertsson]

I further recommend Francis Wayland's, Notes on The Principles & Practices of Baptist Churches.

http://standardbearer.org/Shop/Detail.aspx?

This volume is a 6 x 9 Paperback. It contains - 352 pages
Original Publisher: Sheldon, Blakeman & Co. - New York
Original Pub. Date: 1857

"Francis Wayland was president of Brown University from 1827 - 1855. His object in this volume is to present a popular view of the distinctive beliefs of the Baptist denomination. The book is both popular and practical, extending counsel to the churches themselves as well as informed apologia to the non-Baptist world. Wayland's special emphasis is on the ministry: how defined, how enrolled, how prepared, and how then to serve its function." - AYER COMPANY PUBLISHERS

This link leads to fifty five books in the Baptist Standard Bearer Distinctives Series

http://standardbearer.org/Shop/Search.aspx?cat=dist

From what I can recognize, the authors lived for the most in the 19th century. That's long before the current IFB movement saw the light of day.

 

[JesusFan]

Yeup, many of the Old Line Northern Baptists held it (B. Myron Cedarholm, Richard Weeks, M. James Hollowood). Though, the position (to the best of my knowledge) has never been adopted as "official" by any group.

The key is they knew full well that a "chain of links" couldn't be reliably proved back to Pentecost. They did however held to be literal. As they viewed the Church of Rome to be a false pretender, they held that through the ages God had a faithful remnant left. Some time the remnant could be seen above ground and sometimes it was hidden in a dark corner (at least to modern eyes). Further, they discounted the accounts of the faithful's enemies. By their lights, these enemies could do no less than accuse the faithful of every heresy the enemy could think of.

The men mentioned in the first paragraph would hold that the "chain link" theory smacked of the RCC\EOC claims.

they would be seeing themselves buliding theology upon the Apsotles, and also 'historic" Christian doctrines from those group NOT RCC through the ages then?

Would take into account the reformation for example?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Actually, they tried not to re-invent the wheel. Like eating fish, they were good at eating the meat and spitting out the bones.

they would be seeing themselves buliding theology upon the Apostles, and also 'historic" Christian doctrines from those group NOT RCC through the ages then?

Would take into account the reformation for example?

 

[DHK]

What I think is unfortunately revealed here is a deficiency in ability to discern between that which has almost no importance at all and that which bears eternal consequences.

You'd better know what you're talking about before you launch ideas which pertain to the glory of God and souls of men.

The ability to mock this importance is not good.

And the ability to mock those who sincerely believe the truths of the Bible are good? That is what the RCC did as they went on their crusades and massacred such people as the Albigenses.

 

[John of Japan]

And the ability to mock those who sincerely believe the truths of the Bible are good? That is what the RCC did as they went on their crusades and massacred such people as the Albigenses.

Luke may be in completely uncharted terrritory here. So far he's shown no knowledge of the Albigenses or any other evangelical, historical, non-RC groups.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

At the least, I recommend he read Verduin's Reformers and Their Stepchildren. The late Dr. Verduin can be considered neutral on the matter as he was the Dutch Reformed chaplain at Calvin College.

Luke may be in completely uncharted terrritory here. So far he's shown no knowledge of the Albigenses or any other evangelical, historical, non-RC groups.

 

[Luke2427]

You seriously need to study early church history, not to mention the later centuries. Ever read Eusebius? The Apostolic Fathers? Heard of the Greek Orthodox Church which has immersed since the early centuries? The Nestorians, Paulicians, Waldensians, Huguenauts, etc., etc.?

Yes. I have. And? Are you going to substantiate that claim or just hurl unfounded accusations?

 

[John of Japan]

Yes. I have. And? Are you going to substantiate that claim or just hurl unfounded accusations?

You have what? Read all of these? And what accusation of mine are you talking about? And what claim are you talking about?

 

[olefundybob]

An IFB Systematic Theolohy

Try Systematic Theology, by Rolland D. McCune, 3 Volumes.
He was President of Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, and taught for 14 years at Central Baptist Theological Seminary, Minneapolis. He is a fundamental Baptist in Doctrine and practice. Available through the seminary bookstore or at Amazon. This is a scholarly work by a Dispensationalist.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

You have what? Read all of these? And what accusation of mine are you talking about? And what claim are you talking about?

John, here's a weird question. You and I are martial artists. 1,000 years from know, where will the authentic Jeet Kune Do be? From those who can quote "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" and practice its concepts and training regimen? Or will it be people who can trace their lineage of instructors back to Bruce Lee ( I come from the Taky Kimura lineage! Oh yeah? Well I come from the Dan Inosanto lineage!).

Can such a discussion shed light on the present discussion or not? Just thought I'd throw that out there. Luke, don't mess with John of Japan--he knows Wing Chun kung fu; he knows 400 ways to slap your arms.

Your turn, John! :tongue3:

 

[seekingthetruth]

John, here's a weird question. You and I are martial artists. 1,000 years from know, where will the authentic Jeet Kune Do be? From those who can quote "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" and practice its concepts and training regimen? Or will it be people who can trace their lineage of instructors back to Bruce Lee ( I come from the Taky Kimura lineage! Oh yeah? Well I come from the Dan Inosanto lineage!).

Can such a discussion shed light on the present discussion or not? Just thought I'd throw that out there. Luke, don't mess with John of Japan--he knows Wing Chun kung fu; he knows 400 ways to slap your arms.

Your turn, John! :tongue3:

Yeah but Luke is an expert on EVERYTHING else. Don't believe me? Just ask him. He will tell you that he knows everything about everything.

John

 

[Jkdbuck76]

I'm poking John of Japan in the ribs a little. I'd rather tell Mom I married another man than tell her I learned wing chun kung fu. :laugh:

So..... how are we to view church history? How important is it? Or are we better off learning something else?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

So..... how are we to view church history? How important is it? Or are we better off learning something else?

Well, the first imperative is to learn some basic theology, but when you've done that, get into Church history. First off, it's fascinating and well worth doing in its own right. Secondly, if you understand how things came about, it's easier to judge if they're good or bad. Thirdly, just about every error and heresy has already happened years ago and the battles we are fighting today our forefathers fought before us. If we know how they went about it, it may be helpful to us today.

Steve

 

[glfredrick]

All this "dialog" and still no IFB independent theology that does not derive from that commonly held by Christians in all ages. :BangHead:

Guess you all are not quite as independent as you think you are.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yeah but Luke is an expert on EVERYTHING else. Don't believe me? Just ask him. He will tell you that he knows everything about everything.

John

Hey confidence is not a bad thing:laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

Hey confidence is not a bad thing:laugh:

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I further recommend Francis Wayland's, Notes on The Principles & Practices of Baptist Churches.

http://standardbearer.org/Shop/Detail.aspx?

This volume is a 6 x 9 Paperback. It contains - 352 pages
Original Publisher: Sheldon, Blakeman & Co. - New York
Original Pub. Date: 1857

"Francis Wayland was president of Brown University from 1827 - 1855. His object in this volume is to present a popular view of the distinctive beliefs of the Baptist denomination. The book is both popular and practical, extending counsel to the churches themselves as well as informed apologia to the non-Baptist world. Wayland's special emphasis is on the ministry: how defined, how enrolled, how prepared, and how then to serve its function." - AYER COMPANY PUBLISHERS

This link leads to fifty five books in the Baptist Standard Bearer Distinctives Series

http://standardbearer.org/Shop/Search.aspx?cat=dist

From what I can recognize, the authors lived for the most in the 19th century. That's long before the current IFB movement saw the light of day.

Heaven forbid Squire that you should advise some people to read books (other than the Bible) to educate & enlighten themselves.....:laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.

That was a joke....get it :laugh::laugh:

 

[seekingthetruth]

All this "dialog" and still no IFB independent theology that does not derive from that commonly held by Christians in all ages. :BangHead:

Guess you all are not quite as independent as you think you are.

Well Fred,

First of all, the argument made by you and Luke that IFB should have it's own theology is silly. We hold to the teachings of the New Testament church. All denominations hold to the same thing to one degree or another. IFB doesn't claim to have any special doctrine that it came up with. As a matter of fact, the IFB church I go to is identical in doctrine and beliefs as the SBC church I grew up in 40 years ago. What does set us apart from SBC now is that we still hold to conservative views.

As far as independent? You obviously don't know what the term means as it is applied to IFB.

"The word "Independent" means the church is not a member of any council, convention or is a part of any hierarchy outside the local congregation. A true Independent Baptist church governs itself apart from any outside agency and would not be apart of a national or international denomination that would exercise authority over the local church. Thus, the name "independent" means the church patterns itself after the New Testament example and stands alone under the authority of the scriptures. Independent churches are autonomous assemblies having no organization over them in authority. Free from outside interference, they direct their own affairs under the authority of the New Testament Scriptures. "

It's about being autonomous in church government, not independent in doctrine.

You and Luke have this vendetta against IFB and have come up with this goofy argument that IFB should have it's own set of doctrines created by itself. It took the line of Christians all the way back to the Apostles to bring us to where we are today. And it took scholars from all different denominations to peice together the doctrine we have today.

The fact that on this thread Luke has called IFB a cult, bastards, and theives, and the fact that you don't know what independent means, tells me that this whole thread is really about your hatred for IFB, not about church history.

John

 

[Luke2427]

You have what? Read all of these? And what accusation of mine are you talking about? And what claim are you talking about?

Yes. I am familiar with them.

Your claim is that I am not.

But that's all you did.
You didn't make a point from the existence of these historical groups.
You didn't even attempt to establish that the existence of these historical groups contradicts anything I have been arguing.

You just said that apparently luke isn't familiar with them- which is incorrect.

You didn't try to substantiate the claim that I am unfamiliar with them.

You just said it. That's it.

That's not an argument.