freeatlast
New Member
Let me point you to the search feature to read what I have already answered you many times on the very same question.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
meaning of Lord?
- Thread starter nodak
- Start date
Let me point you to the search feature to read what I have already answered you many times on the very same question.
Let me point you to the search feature to read what I have already answered you many times on the very same question.
You have stated stated that John did NOT refer to Christians as the ones to confess their sins to God in order to be cleansed, but the Gnostics...
Where are they even mentioned by Him in the letter, as he was addressing this to the saved all the way through?
freeatlast
New Member
Okay, so you cannot see that John defines "sin" as broken relationship.
Not if you mean in a Christian. The book never deals with such a teaching. The book is dealing with the false teachings of the Gnostics and John uses a comparison of what a believer is like (the saved) against what the Gnostics teach as well as how they live to make his point that such a person is lost no matter what they claim. It is never about a believer in sin as no believer can practice sin and that is one of the points John makes.
This is part of the problem with the church today. Many want the believers life to be a wide gate and a crooked path instead of what scripture says a narrow gate and a straight path. If a person is not in the practice of keeping the commandment they are not saved and 1 John is making that clear. No believer can practice sin.
freeatlast
New Member
You have stated stated that John did NOT refer to Christians as the ones to confess their sins to God in order to be cleansed, but the Gnostics...
Where are they even mentioned by Him in the letter, as he was addressing this to the saved all the way through?
Let me point you to the search feature as I have answered that question for you in the past.
Interesting that according to Calvinists man has zero responsibility in the salvation process yet for Lordship Calvinists the exhortation is "you must make Jesus the Lord of your life."
We do not "make "Jesus anything....God has declared Him to BE LORD and Christ.
Acts2:36
Freeatlast has it correct. We all are responsible to obey Him.
We do not "make "Jesus anything....God has declared Him to BE LORD and Christ.
Acts2:36
Freeatlast has it correct. We all are responsible to obey Him.
BOTH Cals/Non Calls would affirm that jesus is the Lord, and that are responsible to be in odedience unto Him BUT...
Question is do we hold that we are saved by grace faith ALONE, or that we have a nixture of Grace but still required to keep the Law?
AS FAL has it as reading the Bible stating that either we are 100% obeying the Lord, in order to prove that we are really saved!
Extreme view Lordship salvation, bordering on sinless perfection!
freeatlast
New Member
BOTH Cals/Non Calls would affirm that jesus is the Lord, and that are responsible to be in odedience unto Him BUT...
Question is do we hold that we are saved by grace faith ALONE, or that we have a nixture of Grace but still required to keep the Law?
AS FAL has it as reading the Bible stating that either we are 100% obeying the Lord, in order to prove that we are really saved!
Extreme view Lordship salvation, bordering on sinless perfection!
I have never said any of that. You either have been eating some bad dog food and become mentally disoriented in your thinking or you are lying.
I have never said any of that. You either have been eating some bad dog food and become mentally disoriented in your thinking or you are lying.
You deny we have still sin natures, deny that saints can still sin for a while, you deny that saints need to confess their sins, and believe that one can reaqch a state in this life avoiding all sinning...
Who is having bad food for diet again?
Mine is the Bible for daily food!
freeatlast
New Member
You deny we have still sin natures, deny that saints can still sin for a while, you deny that saints need to confess their sins, and believe that one can reaqch a state in this life avoiding all sinning...
Who is having bad food for diet again?
Mine is the Bible for daily food!
Again you need to stay off that dog food. It is effecting your brain.
I did show you. You refuse to lookYou did give one answer. I can summarize it in a few words. It is "No a believer cannot lose fellowship with the Lord." (Repeated a half dozen times in different ways). You accused me of taking Scripture out of context but when challenged you can't show me what Scripture I have taken out of context. So you really haven't answered my post have you?
Again you need to stay off that dog food. It is effecting your brain.
Are you denying that you hold to those points listed prior by me?
As ALL of those would be biblical, and you hold the opposite non biblical view points!
glfredrick
New Member
Not if you mean in a Christian. The book never deals with such a teaching. The book is dealing with the false teachings of the Gnostics and John uses a comparison of what a believer is like (the saved) against what the Gnostics teach as well as how they live to make his point that such a person is lost no matter what they claim. It is never about a believer in sin as no believer can practice sin and that is one of the points John makes.
This is part of the problem with the church today. Many want the believers life to be a wide gate and a crooked path instead of what scripture says a narrow gate and a straight path. If a person is not in the practice of keeping the commandment they are not saved and 1 John is making that clear. No believer can practice sin.
First, how do you KNOW that John's epistle is dealing with the false teaching of the Gnostics. It does not say THAT. It does deal with false teachers, but the idea that they were Gnostics is something that has to be derived from other than the scriptural record. And, in fact, giving the Gnostics such an early dating can be problematic (read "The Gospel and the Greeks" by Ronald Nash for a bigger picture of why that is an issue).
And, second, if John is not writing about the sin of a believer, then what on earth is he actually writing about. I am of a mind that you are considerably clouded as to your interpretation of John's epistle, and if so with that simple book, likely more so with the rest of Scripture that proves more difficult. In that ALL unbelievers are sinners, and all believers are yet sinners, though their sin (singular) has been forgiven, John is not just writing to unbelievers. Hence his address to the church, and not to the lost world around the church.
1Jo 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jo 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Essentially, according to what John wrote to the believers, you sir are a liar. Note that John says that. I am just pasting his words. I mean no personal offense.
freeatlast
New Member
Are you denying that you hold to those points listed prior by me?
As ALL of those would be biblical, and you hold the opposite non biblical view points!
You lumped a buch of stuff together which was not true. I am denying that.
freeatlast
New Member
First, how do you KNOW that John's epistle is dealing with the false teaching of the Gnostics. It does not say THAT. It does deal with false teachers, but the idea that they were Gnostics is something that has to be derived from other than the scriptural record. And, in fact, giving the Gnostics such an early dating can be problematic (read "The Gospel and the Greeks" by Ronald Nash for a bigger picture of why that is an issue).
And, second, if John is not writing about the sin of a believer, then what on earth is he actually writing about. I am of a mind that you are considerably clouded as to your interpretation of John's epistle, and if so with that simple book, likely more so with the rest of Scripture that proves more difficult. In that ALL unbelievers are sinners, and all believers are yet sinners, though their sin (singular) has been forgiven, John is not just writing to unbelievers. Hence his address to the church, and not to the lost world around the church.
Essentially, according to what John wrote to the believers, you sir are a liar. Note that John says that. I am just pasting his words. I mean no personal offense.
If you want to believe John is not dealing with the problem of the teachings of Gnostics that is fine.
glfredrick
New Member
If you want to believe John is not dealing with the problem of the teachings of Gnostics that is fine.
Prove that he is!
freeatlast
New Member
Prove that he is!
Prove he is not!
Prove he is not!
Apostle John addressed it in the beginning to those who SAVED there at that local church , express purpose was to let them KNOW they have fellowship with the father thru jesus Christ, that some in their midst were destorting the message of the Gospel, and tht they already were saved by grace, but needed to confess to God for forgivess and cleansing when they were caught up in a sin...
ONLY "Gnostic" refuting would have been 'early stages", that would have taught them to don't worry about sinning, as your soul is saved, flesh can do whatever!
John telling them to stay clean before God, that he asks them to not live as the unsaved, but that they also can stay in felowship with the Ftaher through the means of confession of their sins when done before God!
freeatlast
New Member
Apostle John addressed it in the beginning to those who SAVED there at that local church , express purpose was to let them KNOW they have fellowship with the father thru jesus Christ, that some in their midst were destorting the message of the Gospel, and tht they already were saved by grace, but needed to confess to God for forgivess and cleansing when they were caught up in a sin...
ONLY "Gnostic" refuting would have been 'early stages", that would have taught them to don't worry about sinning, as your soul is saved, flesh can do whatever!
John telling them to stay clean before God, that he asks them to not live as the unsaved, but that they also can stay in felowship with the Ftaher through the means of confession of their sins when done before God!
Nope John is dealing with the false teachings of the Gnostics.
Nope John is dealing with the false teachings of the Gnostics.
if he was, it was ONLY in the sense that he was instructing the Christians to NOT heed their theology, but to remain in fellowship with the father, to strive to live lives worthy of Him who had called them, and to instruct them just HOW to stay in fellowship with the Father, thru confession of their sins to God!
freeatlast
New Member
if he was, it was ONLY in the sense that he was instructing the Christians to NOT heed their theology, but to remain in fellowship with the father, to strive to live lives worthy of Him who had called them, and to instruct them just HOW to stay in fellowship with the Father, thru confession of their sins to God!
A Christian cannot lose fellowship. The issue was to make sure they did not start teaching error and destroy the truth.