Always make something personal when you cannot deal with Biblical substance! I could just as easily say you sound as a father who denies your children have faults?
You didn't back up your claims with scripture, but your proof was anecdotal evidence. You frequently use the refrain of "anyone with a child knows..." or "if you ever had children..." Had you used scripture, I could have easily shown you how you wrongly interpreted it... but you didn't use scripture as your evidence, you used your own failures as a parent to demonstrate your point. Since your point is wrong, the only way I can demonstrate that to you is by showing you where you went wrong.
No to all the above! Sin entered Adam from the outside but when it did it took up the mastery on the inside and it is this kind of human nature he passed down to his posterity with indwelling sin!
Yet, you cannot show us a scriptural basis for sin being passed. Romans 5 clearly says death, not sin, is passed ... and Ezekial 18 makes it clear that according to the law, one is not judged for the sin of an ancestor or child, but only for their own sin. So just where do you get the idea that sin is passed on in heredity?
Opened to what is the correct question! He knew he sinned when he determined to willfully eat the fruit but the action brought the intent to completion. What his eyes were opened to was the KNOWLEDGE of sin by EXPERIENCE of conscience that condemned what he did!
"Opened to what" is irrelevant. Sin is sin. The law is not concerned with thoughts, beliefs, but only with actions or behavior. Adam was not a sinner until he broke the law by action. Otherwise, his eyes would have been opened as soon as he lusted. But his eyes were not opened until he had sinned.
It is grace that concerns itself with faith or beliefs.
This was not Adam but Eve and the nature of the sin was not the same (1 Tim. 2:12). Adam's desire that led to his sin was not deception based upon the physical attributes of the fruit or Satan's deceptive description of its potential spiritual attributes.
Adam desiring potential spiritual gain... no way that could be considered lust, I guess. Sometimes I wonder if you think before you type.
Never said it did come from God! That is your pure imagination at work! Always from the beginning of this discussion have used this text and denied it came from God. Finally, you wake up! Good!
Of course one can't get around that and be a good Calvinist. So if sin didn't come from God, then God must not be COMPLETELY sovereign then, right? I mean someone else besides God must have created sin, right?
Not in a prefallen Adam! But we are not products of a Pre-fallen Adam are we because "by one man's offence many were made......" As Jesus said it is the heart that is the source of all sin and such sin is "bound up IN THE HEART of a child" from birth!
Rom 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.
Post-fallen man sin because they are sinners by nature and in infants it is clearly seen by omission of the image of God and by coming short of the glory of God in all they do as they grow more capable of self-expression.
"Clearly seen" by the eyes of a sinner like you, but unsupported by scripture yet again.
You should learn the difference between sin as a willful act and sin as a wrong intent behind all actions
This is true as it pertains to grace and faith - those are concerned with your beliefs. But can you show me where this is in The Law? And concerning Adam... perhaps you can show me from the following passage where it says that Adam was to maintain the right intentions:
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
The only "law" in existence was to not eat of the tree. God didn't tell Adam He was going to be judging his thoughts and motives.
This is precisely why Jesus says sin originates from the heart (Mt. 15) not the actions.
Jesus says that because all men are sinners and the only way to save them is by grace - it is grace and faith that concern themselves with beliefs and intents.
Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
You have to be careful when reading Job because it is poetry written as a play. There are "wrong" statements in Job made by Job's associates, for example:
Job 15:1 Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said,
Job 42:7 And it was [so], that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me [the thing that is] right, as my servant Job [hath].
How do we know Eliphaz was wrong? God says he was wrong. Furthermore:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
This is why David said,
Psa. 58:2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
It says "from" the womb... not in the womb. Meaning they are out of the womb. It is reiterated by "as soon as they are born." Do you think a newborn can "speak lies" or do you think this is poetic language?
Perhaps the intended meaning of this poetic text was that they were all together sinful their whole lives?
What you fail to understand is sin separates and Adam died spiritually at the precise point he sinned ...
Do you see that "DEAD" and SINNERS" are equally what is passed down becuase they are inseparable.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Clearly, they are separable. In fact, the scriptures say that death reigned over people even when no sin was imputed to them:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
This is critical. This is how Jesus could die having no sin. If the sons of Adam inherit sin, then Jesus would have inherited sin. But sin is not passed, death is passed. If Jesus wasn't a son of Adam (a son of man) then he wasn't qualified to be our savior.
No father on earth but ONE acted in behalf of others! So this use of Ezekiel 18 is completely out of context and has no applicaton whatsoever.
"by ONE MAN's offence MANY WERE MADE SINNERS" is a repudiation of your misapplication of Ezek. 18:20! You cannot place "the father" in Ezek. 18:20 as the "one man" in Romans 5:15,19 and so why are you trying? You are simply pitting scripture against scripture by jerking Ezek 18:20 out of context!
The whole context of Romans 5 is against your interpretation of verse 19. Ezekiel 18 demonstrates that the law does not hold a person accountable for the unrighteousness of an ancestor. When a person is judged, they are judged for their own sin. So when is a person judged?
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So we are judged AFTER we die. This means when we die, it is not a judgement on us. Our death is an inheritance from Adam, not an individual judgement.
You see - death and sin ARE separable. They are not the same thing. Sin is an action, and death is a consequence for that action. Sin is an action, death is a result of that action. The death we inherit is a RESULT of Adam's sin, but it is not an individual judgement. It is a global judgement represented in the Curse in Genesis 3:19.
You falsely believe that the moment Adam sinned, he died spiritually. But this demonstrably false.
Adam didn't die spiritually or physically until he was judged by God.
Physical Death
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
Spiritual Death
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
