Cornelius, a Just Man Who Feared God

[billwald]

>If he was already saved then why was Peter sent to him to preach the gospel to him so that he could be saved (Acts 11:13-14)?

He was "saved" (regenerated) but lacking conversion was missing the temporal blessings of church membership.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

>If he was already saved then why was Peter sent to him to preach the gospel to him so that he could be saved (Acts 11:13-14)?

He was "saved" (regenerated) but lacking conversion was missing the temporal blessings of church membership.

If he was saved prior to hearing the gospel then why was Peter sent to him to preach the gospel to him so that he could be saved?

Are you saying that a person is "saved" prior to hearing the gospel and then after believing the gospel he is saved again?

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

The fact that Cornelius was able to have a fear of God proves that all men are able to do the same thing

No it doesnt, unless man can give himself a new nature born of God ! You probably believe he can..

 

[Jerry Shugart]

HP: Righteousness is divorced from anything you or I could even think of doing and is delegated to the realm of imputation by Christ alone. All their unrighteous deeds done subsequent to salvation have had the blood applied to them before they ever commit them.

I believe that in a Christian's "standing" before God any sins which are committed subsequent to salvation are not imputed into his account:

"Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:7-8).

In the Christian's "walk" or actual "state" when he sins then that sin is not cleansed by the blood until that sin is confessed:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin...If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:7,9).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No it doesnt, unless man can give himself a new nature born of God ! You probably believe he can..

So are you saying that Cornelius was regenerated but he was not yet saved?

 

[savedbymercy]

If he was already saved then why was Peter sent to him to preach the gospel to him so that he could be saved (Acts 11:13-14)?

Thats who the Gospel is sent to, the saved. It proves they are in a saved state. The Gospel is the gospel of their salvation Eph 1:13

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

How could it be your salvation, if they are not saved !

Acts 11:13-14

13And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Its not thy and thy house shall get saved, but be saved ! That is shown to be in a saved state.

To fear God, one must be Regenerated and Renewed by the Spirit Tits 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

So he was already saved [regenerated] because he feared God ! Also in Acts 10:22 it reads

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

That word just is the greek word dikaios and means:


righteous, observing divine laws

a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

1) of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

2) innocent, faultless, guiltless

3) used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

a) only Christ truly

4) approved of or acceptable of God

b) in a narrower sense, rendering to each his due and that in a judicial sense, passing just judgment on others, whether expressed in words or shown by the manner of dealing with them

Its the same word used here Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Cornelius was a Righteous man before He was sent the Gospel. A Righteous man is a saved man !

Matt 13:43

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Now do you reject the Truth that Cornelius was Righteous before God before the Gospel was sent to him or no ?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Thats who the Gospel is sent to, the saved.

No, the gospel is sent to men so that they can be saved:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

According to your ideas the gospel is NOT the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth but instead the gospel is for those who are already saved.

Evidently you believe that the Philippian jailer was given the wrong answer when he asked what he must do to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

No, the gospel is sent to men so that they can be saved:

Thats a lie, it is sent to the saved, the righteous. Was not Cornelus righteous before God sent him the Gospel ? Read Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Thats a lie, it is sent to the saved, the righteous. Was not Cornelus righteous before God sent him the Gospel ? Read Acts 10:22

Let us look at what you said about that?:

Acts 11:13-14

13And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Its not thy and thy house shall get saved, but be saved !

The words "shall be saved" is in the "future" tense, meaning that when Peter was sent to them to preach the gospel they were not yet saved.

Again, the gospel is sent to men so that they can be saved:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

According to your ideas the gospel is NOT the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth but instead the gospel is for those who are already saved.

Evidently you believe that the Philippian jailer was given the wrong answer when he asked what he must do to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

 

[12strings]

OK, so yo believe Cornelius was regenerated by the Holy Spirit before he believed and received the Spirit. How does that work?, please explain in detail.

How about the Samaritans who heard the woman at the well and believed on Jesus because of her words? How did that work?

Jn 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of the city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that I ever did.

This verse explains how and why these Samaritans believed on Jesus, because of the testimony of the woman.

How do you explain this when we know this woman herself did not receive the Spirit until after Jesus was raised from the dead and glorified?

Alright, I'll try to reple y to some of these...Though it sounds like biblicist probalby is as much a believer in the main tenants of what we call calvinism as I am.

I would explain Winman's post by referring to the verses that refer to no one coming to the father without his drawing (jn. 6), by the necessity of being born from above by a spirit that moves where it will like the wind (Jn. 3). OT believers who had faith in God, and those who believed in Jesus during his earthly life...all of these, including the samaritan woman and the disciples... were regenerated, born again (since jn 3 says no one sees the kingdom of God without being born again), and saved. BUT they were not indwelt by the H.S. in the manner that NT believers were after pentacost.

So I would say God's spirit worked in the OT to regenerate people even though it seems he did not indwell them in the same way as he did NT believers...although I think it might be open to debate as to whether OT believers had some indwelling as well.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So I would say God's spirit worked in the OT to regenerate people even though it seems he did not indwell them in the same way as he did NT believers...although I think it might be open to debate as to whether OT believers had some indwelling as well.

So are you saying that Cornelius was regenerated even though he was not saved?

I thought that the Calvinists taught that it is only "logically" that regeneration precedes faith but not "temporal." Calvinist R.C. Sproul writes:

"When speaking of the order of salvation ('ordo salutis'), Reformed theology always and everywhere insists that regeneration precedes faith. Regeneration precedes faith because it is a necessary condition for faith...It is important to understand, however, that the 'order' of salvation refers to the 'logical' order, not necessarily a 'temporal' order...when Reformed theology says regeneration precedes faith, it is speaking in terms of logical priority, not temporal priority. We cannot exercise saving faith until we have been regenerated, so we say faith is dependent on regeneration, not regeneration on faith" (R.C. Sproul, What Is Reformed Theology? [Grand Rapids: Baker Books, Second Printing, 2005], 195).

In fact, The Calvinists teach that a person cannot be called out of a state of death (regeneration) apart from the word:

"All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ" (The Westminster Confession of Faith; X./1).

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

Let us look at what you said about that?:

Was Cornelius a Righteous man before He believed the Gospel ? Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

The words "shall be saved" is in the "future" tense, meaning that when Peter was sent to them to preach the gospel they were not yet saved.

I know what tense it is. Those who are now saved, shall be saved in the future also. Future salvation does not negate present salvation. Those who are now saves shall be saved in the future as Per Rom 13:11

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Those who are now Justified, shall be saved in the future from wrath Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This is also future tense. Now do you deny that they are now Justified ?

Your argument lacks scripture support. The word of God plainly states that Cornelius was a Righteous Man before He believed the Gospel Acts 10:22..

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Was Cornelius a Righteous man before He believed the Gospel ? Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Read my opening post on this forum and you will see that is exactly what I said.

I know what tense it is. Those who are now saved, shall be saved in the future also.

One is speaking about some that has already happened--the salvation of our soul (1 Pet.1:9). The other is in regard to when a believer will receive an immortal body.

The words in regard to Cornelius are obviously speaking about preaching the gospel to him for the salvation of the soul.

 

[12strings]

So are you saying that Cornelius was regenerated even though he was not saved?

You didn't read what I said. I THINK he was saved, as an OT-type believer before the coming of the indwelling spirit. I am not certain of this, however cuz I think this passage causes problems for cals and non-cals alike due to the unique nature of the time, that faithful believers in the OT God of Israel were confronted with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Here are the possibilities as I see them:

1. Cornelius was saved and a true believer in the God of Israel (just like OT believers) before he heard of Jesus and believed in him, at which time he received the holy Spirit. The disciples too would have fit this category before pentacost.

2. Cornelius was not a truly saved man, though he was a "god-fearer" the term given to gentiles who accepted the God of Israel. We know from the Gospels that there were many Supposed followers of the Jewish God who were not truly God's people. He could have been in this camp, being known to the people as a just and upright man, but unsaved until he heard the gospel.


I think either of these is plausible, and neither forces me to say that he was a good man who was already accepted by God based on his works. If so why did he need the gospel?

Also, while the bible does not promise that God answers the prayers of non-believers...it neither says he cannot choose to respond to them, perhaps giving blessings that will lead them to belief.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I THINK he was saved, as an OT-type believer before the coming of the indwelling spirit.

If he was already saved then why was it necessary for him to first hear the gospel?:

"And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved" (Acts 11:12-14).

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

if he was already saved then why was it necessary for him to first hear the gospel?:

That is who the word of Salvation is to sent to, the saved, why you think it is called good news ?

It is the good news of their salvation Eph 1:13

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

Read my opening post on this forum and you will see that is exactly what I said.

You don't know what you are talking about. Cornelus was a saved man before the Gospel was sent to Him. The scripture says he was a just man and feared God, which is a righteous man. He had already benefited from Christ's obedience. Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word righteous is the greek word dikaios and means:


righteous, observing divine laws

a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

1) of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

2) innocent, faultless, guiltless

3) used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

a) only Christ truly

4) approved of or acceptable of God

b) in a narrower sense, rendering to each his due and that in a judicial sense, passing just judgment on others, whether expressed in words or shown by the manner of dealing with them

The word is also translated Just


Now was not Cornelius accepted of God already ? Peter says He was Acts 10:35

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

You cannot get no saver than being a righteous man in God's sight !

Now , this makes your whole religious belief system counterfit !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You don't know what you are talking about. Cornelus was a saved man before the Gospel was sent to Him.

If he was already saved before the gospel was sent to him then why does the Scriptures say that the word of God was sent to him so that he could be saved?:

"And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved" (Acts 11:12-14).

You are ignorant of the most basic things in the Scriptures. You said:

Thats who the Gospel is sent to, the saved.

No, the gospel is sent to men so that they can be saved:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

According to your ideas the gospel is NOT the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth but instead the gospel is for those who are already saved.

Evidently you believe that the Philippian jailer was given the wrong answer when he asked what he must do to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

You are so confused that you think that the gospel is sent to those who are already saved.

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

If he was already saved before the gospel was sent to him then why does the Scriptures say that the word of God was sent to him so that he could be saved?:

It is no if to it, He was already saved, The scripture says He was a Righteous Man Acts 10:22


22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

He was already made Righteous or Just by the Death of Christ !

The shall be saved statement merely means that he would be seen to be in a saved state ! Shall be saved is not the same as saying shall get saved !

No, the gospel is sent to men so that they can be saved:

Right, not so they can get saved. The Gospel is sent to them that are saved, and it reveals to them their Salvation Eph 1:13

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

It was their Salvation, before they believed or Trusted ! If someone who has been dirt poor and struggling with all kinds of debt, one day they receive a letter naming them them the legal heir to a million dollars, because it was left them by a rich Uncle they did know they had. Now when did he become a Millionaire ? Well legally it was when the rich uncle died, the money was his because it was the will of his uncle. Now it did not get word to the struggling nephew until a week later, until that time he knew himself to be only a poor struggling soul, but then he received the good news that he was a millionaire, and that news had an effect on the man, he now experienced being delivered from all his financial woes. However, he was delivered legally, before he was delivered experientially, the experientially part came when the good news was announced to him.

The same thing with Cornelius, God had already counted Him a Righteous Man, He was already cleansed by Christ, that was so indicated by God's words to peter :

Acts 10:15

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common

God had cleansed Cornelius by the blood of Christ. That word for cleansed is the greek word katharizō and means:


to make clean, cleanse

a) from physical stains and dirt

1) utensils, food

2) a leper, to cleanse by curing

3) to remove by cleansing

b) in a moral sense

1) to free from defilement of sin and from faults

2) to purify from wickedness

3) to free from guilt of sin, to purify

4) to consecrate by cleansing or purifying

5) to consecrate, dedicate

2) to pronounce clean in a levitical sense

It is the same word Paul used in Titus 2:14

14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

Thats who the Gospel of Salvation is sent to, those who God has cleansed by the blood of Christ. The same word is used by John here 1 Jn 1:7

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Cornelius had been cleansed from all sin by Christ's blood before God sent Him the Gospel.

BTW the Gospel is sent to them that Fear God, scripture says so right here Acts 13:26

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God[/B], to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Now, did Cornelius fear God ? Yes Acts 10:2,22

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Now I have showed you from scripture that The Gospel of salvation is sent to the saved, those who fear God by New Birth. It brings to them [the saved] the Good News of their Salvation. If you do not accept that, fine, it just proves to me that you do not know the first thing about Bible Salvation..

You are so confused that you think that the gospel is sent to those who are already saved

It is, so you are the one confused. The Jailor was already saved, but he did not know it yet ! When He believed the Word of the Lord that Paul shared with him as per vs

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Then it Gave evidence that he was saved. So Paul was right, He said, believe in the Lord and thou shalt be saved, in a saved state.

You teach a works salvation !

 

[Moriah]

You don't know what you are talking about. Cornelus was a saved man before the Gospel was sent to Him. The scripture says he was a just man and feared God, which is a righteous man. He had already benefited from Christ's obedience. Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word righteous is the greek word dikaios and means:


righteous, observing divine laws

a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

Gentiles did not keep the commands of God, as given in the law, the Old Testament.

1) of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

2) innocent, faultless, guiltless

3) used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

a) only Christ truly

4) approved of or acceptable of God

b) in a narrower sense, rendering to each his due and that in a judicial sense, passing just judgment on others, whether expressed in words or shown by the manner of dealing with them

The word is also translated Just


Now was not Cornelius accepted of God already ? Peter says He was Acts 10:35

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

You cannot get no saver than being a righteous man in God's sight !

Now , this makes your whole religious belief system counterfit !

Cornelius was a Gentile. This disproves Calvinism. God did not save Cornelius before he heard the message that saves, yet he was a God fearing man. Gentiles did not obey God's commands, and they were separate from Christ.

Ephesians 2:12 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)--

Ephesians 2:11 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.