Sin and the modern age

[agedman]

I am most hesitant to start this thread.

In the modern times, when soul liberty and fleshly appeals are seeming to be moving the "goal posts," I thought I might brave the topic with the folks in this forum.

It is desired that those of you who are experienced in God, church, and people problems address the topic rather than the general readers that one might encounter in other parts of the bb.

The question is: What is sin?

I know that some consider it a breaking of God's moral law. But then just what is considered the "moral law?"

Paul talks about limiting the believer's liberty to a weaker brother's view that fellowship isn't broken. However, does the believer's liberty then a sin?

Is sin relative to time, space, conditions, culture, gender, ...?

Paul says it is a shame for a man to have long hair, but is it a sin?

In the past, many IFBers used up much foaming froth spewing over pants, hair, music, life style choices,... the popular phrase being, "Your not right with God if you..." There were many causes of separation from fellowship with other assemblies and groupings. Whole groupings were gathered over what was or was not held as "right with God." Where does sin reside in these matters?

A local pastor in the late 70's demanded that the folks send their children to the church school, even if they had to eat beans and rice. That any child attending the ungodly public school was "in sin."

What do you hold as a sin?

Is there a cultural nuance that would make something a sin in one part of the world and be totally agreeable in another?

What sin is so devastating or so damaging that you might consider the committing as irreparable, unforgivable, intolerable...?

What sin would cause you to separate or be separated from an assembly or grouping?

Please be very specific, use illustrations, and when possible, make Scripture support for your thinking.

Perhaps one might consider exploring what they consider the most pervasive and/or prevalent sin in this modern time.

 

[saturneptune]

I do not believe the standards of sin change with culture. God is the same forever, as are His standards. We as humans put sins on a pedestal, and the order changes over time. For example, it does not always follow the pattern of things are wrong now and were right back in the good old days when men were men and women were women. In the 20s, a man and a woman at our local church who were married to each other, were disfellowshipped for dancing with each other. Today, that would seem out of line, because it was. The church wronged those two because of culture. The point is it was wrong for the church to act against that couple then, as it would be now. In fact, if someone ever tried something like that today, I would make it my hobby to have the person who first brought the charges disfellowshipped.

That is just one example. My point is that God sets the standards, and does not change them because we move from one fad to the next. Also, God is not subject to our opinions about which sin is more serious. About three years ago, at a church pot luck, I sat and listened to a person talk about another church member and recount to anyone who would listen all of the terrible things this person had done. So while what he said may or may not have been true, he was gossiping and being a glutton at the same time while cutting down someone else. To be honest, it was kind of hard to understand the person, as his mouth was stuffed with food.

 

[OldRegular]

I agree with "saturneptune" God does not change and that which constitutes sin does not change. The Old Testament may say that failure to keep certain ordinances is sin but I believe that those ordinances were done away

Ephesians2:15, KJV
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disbelief in God is a sin! I believe that is the unforgiveable sin!

John 16:8, 9
8. KJV And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9. Of sin, because they believe not on me;

++++++++++++++++++++

Sin is disobedience to God.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

++++++++++++

Anything not of faith is sin.

Romans 14:23, KJV
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

++++++++++++

Sexual imorality is sin!

Matthew 5:27, 28 KJV
27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

1 Corinthians 6:9, KJV
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

++++++++++++++++++

Failure to do good works is sin!

Ephesians 2:10, KJV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 4:17, KJV
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[convicted1]

SN and OR......:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[agedman]

Disbelief in God is a sin! I believe that is the unforgiveable sin!

John 16:8, 9
8. KJV And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9. Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Perhaps.

What is your view then of, "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."

 

[OldRegular]

Perhaps.

What is your view then of, "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."

The Holy Spirit's part in the Covenant of Grace is applying the work of Jesus Christ. Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost would be rejection of Him.

I believe that the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is the instrument of Regeneration. I am also convinced that belief in Jesus Christ is an essential aspect of Salvation and that the regenerate person is given the gift of faith. Therefore, I have always had difficulty squaring my beliefs with the Scripture you reference. Perhaps some kind soul would be of help here.

I am sure the arminians will be overjoyed to help!!:laugh::laugh:

 

[agedman]

The Holy Spirit's part in the Covenant of Grace is applying the work of Jesus Christ. Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost would be rejection of Him.

I believe that the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is the instrument of Regeneration. I am also convinced that belief in Jesus Christ is an essential aspect of Salvation and that the regenerate person is given the gift of faith. Therefore, I have always had difficulty squaring my beliefs with the Scripture you reference. Perhaps some kind soul would be of help here.

I am sure the arminians will be overjoyed to help!!:laugh::laugh:

No doubt the Arminians are waiting in the wings, unless the free will allows them to live sinless lives, and have nothing to add.

I have viewed "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" as claiming: something that is done, someone that is lead, some work of grace... in which the Holy Spirit is involved as the work of the devil.

Wasn't this what the religious rulers were saying about Christ?

 

[OldRegular]

No doubt the Arminians are waiting in the wings, unless the free will allows them to live sinless lives, and have nothing to add.

I have viewed "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" as claiming: something that is done, someone that is lead, some work of grace... in which the Holy Spirit is involved as the work of the devil.

Wasn't this what the religious rulers were saying about Christ?

Many thanks agedman! It is remarkable how one can read Scripture and miss, or forget, the meaning in context.

Mark 3:22-30, KJV
22. And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24. And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27. No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28. Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30. Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

I did a word search to make sure I had not misinterpreted some other Scripture but had not. Goes to show that constant study of Scripture is essential.

 

[Tom Butler]

Does anybody besides me have trouble reading the posts in red? If nobody else has a problem, never mind.

 

[agedman]

Does anybody besides me have trouble reading the posts in red? If nobody else has a problem, never mind.

Yes, but the other colors are worse.

I post on the dark red and then at times have to increase the size to three.

So, the previous quote of verses would look like this.

22. And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24. And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27. No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28. Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30. Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Sometimes it even helps to use the italics, too. All three end up looking:

28. Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30. Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

 

[agedman]

For your consideration

In Romans, Paul presents the state of the conflict that exists between that of the flesh in opposition to the New Nature.

The wonderful message of chapter 8 is that there is "now no condemnation..."

The OP asked "what is sin?"

Can the believer sin with no consequences? Absolutely not.

Is there condemnation (separation from God - loose of salvation) as part of the consequences? Absolutely not.

It is in the second question that the extreme IFBers of the latter half of the 20th century and unashamedly in this century continue to neglect.

The believer may name whatever they consider a sin - sin. Paul is clear on that when presenting the case of the weaker brother. If a believer stumbles over reading the NIV, then the weakness obliges others to not use that weakness as an occasion of the flesh - be it ridicule, or in your face confrontation.

The believer may name whatever they consider might be the consequences to a sin they consider as evidenence. That is within the liberty of the believer. If a believer proclaims that it is a sin to consume strong drink, there is that liberty. It does not bring hurt to anyone and may or may not be agreeable to the assembly.

What the believer(s) should never do, or never even consider doing, is making a pronouncement of the condition of one's salvation as a judgment upon the "sinning" believer. Example: "A person cannot be saved if ... (fill in with some sin named)."


Paul, in two places (at least) makes that point.

The first is already noted in Romans 8.

The other is in dealing with the egregious sin of a man taking as his own his father's wife in 1 Cor. 5. The assembly was to put the man out that the "body of the believer was to be destroyed by Satan," but the soul would be "saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Some might make the claim of Paul only fits if one is "in Christ." All believers are "in Christ."

So, back to the OP.

What is sin?

 

[Iconoclast]

The ten commandments and God's word define what is or isn't sin.

 

[agedman]

The ten commandments and God's word define what is or isn't sin.

I would agree.

Do you include Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians, "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."

 

[saturneptune]

Does anybody besides me have trouble reading the posts in red? If nobody else has a problem, never mind.

When you see red, it is understandable why red font would not have much contrast. It has been months since I got to jab Brother Tom, and it feels so good. LOL

 

[kyredneck]

I've seen red before, I'm usually sorry for it afterwards.

 

[OldRegular]

Does anybody besides me have trouble reading the posts in red? If nobody else has a problem, never mind.

I am trying to make a definite difference between Scripture and my own words. Red seems to be a good choice. Am open to suggestions!

 

[agedman]

I am trying to make a definite difference between Scripture and my own words. Red seems to be a good choice. Am open to suggestions!

Actually, I like to be able to see the contrast.

I am experimenting with changing the actual font when i post Scriptures to see if it also helps with being able to read it.

1 For all have sinned.

2 For all have sinned.

3 For all have sinned.

4 For all have sinned.

5 For all have sinned.

6 For all have sinned.

To me the number three is the easiest to read. It is "verdana, dark red" with no change in size.

What do y'all think?

 

[freeatlast]

I am most hesitant to start this thread.

In the modern times, when soul liberty and fleshly appeals are seeming to be moving the "goal posts," I thought I might brave the topic with the folks in this forum.

It is desired that those of you who are experienced in God, church, and people problems address the topic rather than the general readers that one might encounter in other parts of the bb.

The question is: What is sin?

I know that some consider it a breaking of God's moral law. But then just what is considered the "moral law?"

Paul talks about limiting the believer's liberty to a weaker brother's view that fellowship isn't broken. However, does the believer's liberty then a sin?

Is sin relative to time, space, conditions, culture, gender, ...?

Paul says it is a shame for a man to have long hair, but is it a sin?

In the past, many IFBers used up much foaming froth spewing over pants, hair, music, life style choices,... the popular phrase being, "Your not right with God if you..." There were many causes of separation from fellowship with other assemblies and groupings. Whole groupings were gathered over what was or was not held as "right with God." Where does sin reside in these matters?

A local pastor in the late 70's demanded that the folks send their children to the church school, even if they had to eat beans and rice. That any child attending the ungodly public school was "in sin."

What do you hold as a sin?

Is there a cultural nuance that would make something a sin in one part of the world and be totally agreeable in another?

What sin is so devastating or so damaging that you might consider the committing as irreparable, unforgivable, intolerable...?

What sin would cause you to separate or be separated from an assembly or grouping?

Please be very specific, use illustrations, and when possible, make Scripture support for your thinking.

Perhaps one might consider exploring what they consider the most pervasive and/or prevalent sin in this modern time.

Sin is anything anyone does that is not done by faith and faith comes from hearing and hearing by he word of God. So what we do must be verified by scripture directly or indirectly of God that God does not disapprove of what we are doing and we have to not doubt in that issue based on the word of God to be faith. Even something as natural as eating can be sin of not done by faith.
Romans 10:17
So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 14:22,23
Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

 

[freeatlast]

Does anybody besides me have trouble reading the posts in red? If nobody else has a problem, never mind.

If they are in red or some color that makes it difficult I pass over them.

 

[Tom Butler]

A couple of options:

For someone else's comments, use the quote feature, put yours in normal black

Put theirs in black and yours in bold

Put theirs in bold and yours in black

Put theirs in italics and yours in normal black.

Reds and blues make it harder for me to read them, and I'm pretty lazy.