Who are the elect?

[MB]

If you think that the natural man can respond to spiritual things, then how do you explain 1 Cor 2:14

Read right in to 1 Cor 3 I'm sure your aware that the disciples did not place numbers on each verse nor did they work out the chapters in each book. This always the same problem Calvinist have they never read all of it but instead they assume each verse is a separate message all alone and by it's self.
MB

 

[MB]

There are too many scriptures that will not harmonise with the thinking that God wants all mankind to be saved. Dan 4:35, Isa 50:2.

What you really mean is "won't harmonize with your doctrine" You see scripture always harmonizes with it's self this is why you need to read the whole thing before you form an opinion.
Neither of the scriptures you have posted here have anything to do with what you have claimed
MB

 

[convicted1]

What you really mean is "won't harmonize with your doctrine" You see scripture always harmonizes with it's self this is why you need to read the whole thing before you form an opinion.
Neither of the scriptures you have posted here have anything to do with what you have claimed
MB

The Word is in complete harmony with each other. Some times, we have the wrong "tune" however.

The Word is like a bunch of building blocks, that build upon each other. Sometime, we place these blocks in the wrong sequence, and make the building look faulty.

 

[Forest]

Read right in to 1 Cor 3 I'm sure your aware that the disciples did not place numbers on each verse nor did they work out the chapters in each book. This always the same problem Calvinist have they never read all of it but instead they assume each verse is a separate message all alone and by it's self.
MB

1 Cor 3:1, The born again person when he is converted, he does not immediatly understand the meat of the doctrine, but he is a babe in Christ. Chapter 3 is not talking about the carnal man understanding the milk of the word. The natural man, before he is quickened to a spiritual life cannot understand even the milk of the word because the milk of the word is a spiritual thing.

 

[Forest]

What you really mean is "won't harmonize with your doctrine" You see scripture always harmonizes with it's self this is why you need to read the whole thing before you form an opinion.
Neither of the scriptures you have posted here have anything to do with what you have claimed
MB

I have claimed that God does not want to save all mankind and Dan 4:35 has every thing to do with what I am claiming and that is if God wanted to save all mankind Dan 4:35 says that God doeth according to his will and none can stay his hand. Why don't you just go ahead and admitt that you cannot explian Dan 4:35 in a way that it will back up your claim that God wants to save all mankind.

 

[Forest]

The Word is in complete harmony with each other. Some times, we have the wrong "tune" however.

The Word is like a bunch of building blocks, that build upon each other. Sometime, we place these blocks in the wrong sequence, and make the building look faulty.

MB cannot explain Dan 4:35 to fit into his thinking that God wants to save all mankind, so he just flatly denys that it does not say what it PLAINLY states that he accomplishes his will.

 

[convicted1]

MB cannot explain Dan 4:35 to fit into his thinking that God wants to save all mankind, so he just flatly denys that it does not say what it PLAINLY states that he accomplishes his will.

God is not willing that anyone should perish, but come to repentance.

God gets no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

God in His righteousness, must, and will, punish sinners for their sins.

 

[Forest]

God is not willing that anyone should perish, but come to repentance.

God gets no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

God in His righteousness, must, and will, punish sinners for their sins.

Then are you telling me that God does not accomplish his will? Like Dan 4:35 says.

 

[convicted1]

Then are you telling me that God does not accomplish his will? Like Dan 4:35 says.

God's will will be done, I agree. It's His will to save the heathen through faith. It was His will to send His Son to die for a vile sinner like me. It was His will to make the heavens and the earth. It is His will to seperate the Sheep from the goats when He sends His Son to execute judgement upon all mankind, whether they be Saint or sinner.

 

[Forest]

God's will will be done, I agree. It's His will to save the heathen through faith. It was His will to send His Son to die for a vile sinner like me. It was His will to make the heavens and the earth. It is His will to seperate the Sheep from the goats when He sends His Son to execute judgement upon all mankind, whether they be Saint or sinner.

Yes, but is it his will to eternally save all mankind? 2 Pet 3:9 will not prove your point, if you like I can explain it for the umpteen time.

 

[Baptist boy]

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Seems pretty clear Isarel isn't the elect. Also in Matthew 24 when he mentions the rapture he says his angels will gather together his elect. I don't know a single person out there that thinks the Jews will be taken up in the Rapture.

 

[MB]

1 Cor 3:1, The born again person when he is converted, he does not immediatly understand the meat of the doctrine, but he is a babe in Christ. Chapter 3 is not talking about the carnal man understanding the milk of the word. The natural man, before he is quickened to a spiritual life cannot understand even the milk of the word because the milk of the word is a spiritual thing.

That isn't what the scripture says my friend. Paul wasn't speaking to the lost he was speaking to new borns in Christ. The point is they were already saved and they still didn't understand. So just where is that prefaith regeneration that makes men understand instantly?
MB

 

[DaChaser1]

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Seems pretty clear Isarel isn't the elect. Also in Matthew 24 when he mentions the rapture he says his angels will gather together his elect. I don't know a single person out there that thinks the Jews will be taken up in the Rapture.

Spiritual isreal was part of the elect of God, those jews who received jesus as messiah due to God causing them to be the "faithful remnant"...

So jews ever since that time who showed they were true isreal, by being the chosen faithful remnant, will be included in the rapture!

 

[Baptist boy]

Spiritual isreal was part of the elect of God, those jews who received jesus as messiah due to God causing them to be the "faithful remnant"...

So jews ever since that time who showed they were true isreal, by being the chosen faithful remnant, will be included in the rapture!

But if a Jew accepts Jesus as the Messiah then that makes him Christian. Think of it Peter was a Jew but accepted Jesus as the Messiah and he called himself Christian:

1 Peter 4:16-17
16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Forest...Hope you dont mind me butting in here...

You said.....

is it his will to eternally save all mankind?

Yes. absolutly Its what He wants, Its His will. Its His GREAT desire.

But God is not a machine that produces a saved person for God to love every 5 seconds like an assembly line, while His other assembly line produces a lost person every 5 seconds for Him to condemn...as calvinism clearly teachs.

Gods little robots.

No

. God creates living breathing people, and He gives every single one of them a choice regarding eternal life. That is His will. His desire.

He wants all to repent and come to Him for eternal life. Every person who comes into the world recieves enough Christ sent revelation to make a choice regarding the acceptantce of God and eternal life...or to refuse.

2 Peter 3:9 will not prove your point,

2 Peter is one of the BEST passages of scripture...among multitudes...regarding this issue.

I hope you will heed these truths. They are very important.

 

[Van]

Reply to Forest;

I have claimed that God does not want to save all mankind and Dan 4:35 has every thing to do with what I am claiming and that is if God wanted to save all mankind Dan 4:35 says that God doeth according to his will and none can stay his hand. Why don't you just go ahead and admitt that you cannot explian Dan 4:35 in a way that it will back up your claim that God wants to save all mankind.

Scripture clearly teaches that God desires all men to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:3. For you to deny this is absurd. Next, you say Dan 4:35 supports your view. But here is what it says:
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
But He does according to His will in the host of heaven
And among the inhabitants of earth;
And no one can ward off His hand
Or say to Him, 'What have You done?’

This means God is sovereign over His creation, our positions if they oppose God are worthless, we are in no position to judge Him. Therefore, this verse does not even address your assertion as to what God desires sovereignly. As was pointed out to you.

Forest, you have been sold a bill of goods that does not mesh with scripture. Time to take a step back and re-think your cart before the horse view. Christ died for and became the propitiation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2. He would not have done that if God did not desire that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Next, you need to set aside that when Christ died on the cross, that saved all the previously chosen elect. Again, the elect are chosen after they believe, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. This says we are chosen by means of the Holy Spirit setting us apart, the sanctification by the Spirit, in Christ and the basis of this election is faith in the truth. Therefore, it is not when Christ died, but when we are spiritually placed in Christ, that salvation occurs. Thus Christ died for everyone, but only those who receive the reconciliation are actually saved. So He did not only die for the whole world, but He also died to save each and every person chosen and set apart in Him. It is not one or the other, its both.

 

[DaChaser1]

Scripture clearly teaches that God desires all men to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:3. For you to deny this is absurd. Next, you say Dan 4:35 supports your view. But here is what it says:
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
But He does according to His will in the host of heaven
And among the inhabitants of earth;
And no one can ward off His hand
Or say to Him, 'What have You done?’

This means God is sovereign over His creation, our positions if they oppose God are worthless, we are in no position to judge Him. Therefore, this verse does not even address your assertion as to what God desires sovereignly. As was pointed out to you.

Forest, you have been sold a bill of goods that does not mesh with scripture. Time to take a step back and re-think your cart before the horse view. Christ died for and became the propitiation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2. He would not have done that if God did not desire that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Next, you need to set aside that when Christ died on the cross, that saved all the previously chosen elect. Again, the elect are chosen after they believe, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. This says we are chosen by means of the Holy Spirit setting us apart, the sanctification by the Spirit, in Christ and the basis of this election is faith in the truth. Therefore, it is not when Christ died, but when we are spiritually placed in Christ, that salvation occurs. Thus Christ died for everyone, but only those who receive the reconciliation are actually saved. So He did not only die for the whole world, but He also died to save each and every person chosen and set apart in Him. It is not one or the other, its both.

Jesus death was sufficient to pay for the sins of all, but ONLY those whom have that grace of God applied unto their behalf will actually benefit from it!

MUST leann to define "all" biblically!

 

[percho]

Jesus death was sufficient to pay for the sins of all, but ONLY those whom have that grace of God applied unto their behalf will actually benefit from it!

MUST leann to define "all" biblically!

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; in him:


Would God's grace have to be applied for that to take place?

When is the fulness of times and does it have a beginning and end?

What is all in the context of that verse?

Is the word things understood or actually in the Greek?

 

[Alive in Christ]

AIC,

"I think" this scripture in Daniel is simply a reminder of one of the things that God hates most in our fallen natures, that being the kernel of the fall, PRIDE.

Nebuchadnezzar epitomizes humanity. He had all that world could offer, a powerful kingdom, admiration, fame, glory, and money. All he had added to his deception of whom he was and who God is. His greatness compared to his fellow man blinded him to reality. Nebuchadnezzar in reality was only a creation, blessed by the creator, who granted him his success.

Satan had the same problem Nebuchadnezzar had, pride. He too forgot that he was only a created being. Satan tried to assume the role of God, for this reason he was dismissed from his heavenly role and became an outcast. He was the victim of pride

Good point. I agree completly.

 

[Forest]

That isn't what the scripture says my friend. Paul wasn't speaking to the lost he was speaking to new borns in Christ. The point is they were already saved and they still didn't understand. So just where is that prefaith regeneration that makes men understand instantly?
MB

I don't know why you mention "prefaith regeneration" to me. I do not believe that the natural man has believing faith until he has been regenerated.