Eternal Security the Acid test

[DHK]

But notice that "ourselves" is not in the list.

Nothing shall separate US from ...Christ
It is fairly clear, and a wonderful promise.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Nothing shall separate US from ...Christ
It is fairly clear, and a wonderful promise.

It's clear to me, too.

I feel sorry for Calvinists, having no ability to make choices.

 

[Moriah]

If no one can lose their salvation, then explain how the guest gets thrown out in Matthew 22.

10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14For many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[DHK]

It's clear to me, too.

I feel sorry for Calvinists, having no ability to make choices.

We may have the opportunity to choose Christ, but once we become part of his family he never disowns us. We will never be separated. We will never lose that which we have. Nothing can come between us and Christ; nothing. He also said:
I give unto them (my sheep) eternal life and they shall never perish.

 

[Moriah]

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

DHK,

That scripture does NOT tell us that people cannot fall away. Now explain why Jesus warns us not to fall away if we cannot. Explain it with your own words; do not just grab a scripture that does not explain.

 

[Moriah]

We may have the opportunity to choose Christ, but once we become part of his family he never disowns us. We will never be separated. We will never lose that which we have. Nothing can come between us and Christ; nothing. He also said:
I give unto them (my sheep) eternal life and they shall never perish.

Then explain why the scriptures say God will judge His people.

Hebrews 10:30-31.

 

[DHK]

If no one can lose their salvation, then explain how the guest gets thrown out in Matthew 22.

10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14For many are called, but few are chosen.

The primary question you must ask yourself is:
What was Jesus Illustrating?

A parable simply illustrates one point that Jesus was teaching. One cannot make it "walk on all fours." So, what is the parable ILLUSTRATING?

Parables don't TEACH doctrine; they simply illustrate doctrine already taught elsewhere.

 

[Moriah]

The primary question you must ask yourself is:
What was Jesus Illustrating?

A parable simply illustrates one point that Jesus was teaching. One cannot make it "walk on all fours." So, what is the parable ILLUSTRATING?

Parables don't TEACH doctrine; they simply illustrate doctrine already taught elsewhere.

You have NOT explained the parable, you tried to DISCREDIT the parable.

 

[DHK]

You have NOT explained the parable, you tried to DISCREDIT the parable.

The wedding garment represented the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
No one will make to heaven without the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

 

[DHK]

Then explain why the scriptures say God will judge His people.

Hebrews 10:30-31.

They were words of comfort for a people that were going through a very troubled time. It was a time of fierce persecution when they had lost most if not all of their possessions. The author is actually comforting them.

Context is important. In the very next verse we read:
Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

 

[Michael Wrenn]

We may have the opportunity to choose Christ, but once we become part of his family he never disowns us. We will never be separated. We will never lose that which we have. Nothing can come between us and Christ; nothing. He also said:
I give unto them (my sheep) eternal life and they shall never perish.

So we have the opportunity to choose Christ, but once we do that, God performs a spiritual lobotomy on us and removes our freedom of will.

 

[Moriah]

The wedding garment represented the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
No one will make to heaven without the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

The Jews who were cut off were saved. You deny this, yet the scriptures prove it.

 

[Moriah]

They were words of comfort for a people that were going through a very troubled time. It was a time of fierce persecution when they had lost most if not all of their possessions. The author is actually comforting them.

Context is important. In the very next verse we read:
Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

You believe the scripture about God judging His people is comforting? It is about the Jews, His people who disobey.

 

[DHK]

The Jews who were cut off were saved. You deny this, yet the scriptures prove it.

What Jews. I told you parables illustrate one truth. Now I give you the truth and you start interjecting other things that the parable has nothing to do with. It is not about Jews. Without the righteousness of Christ you cannot be saved; you cannot enter heaven. That is all there is to it. Nothing more.

 

[DHK]

You believe the scripture about God judging His people is comforting? It is about the Jews, His people who disobey.

The Book of Hebrews is written to Christians, Jewish Christians. There isn't a book in the NT that is written to the unsaved. They are written to the saved. God judges His people every day. He also comforts them. Read the entire chapter.

 

[Moriah]

What Jews. I told you parables illustrate one truth. Now I give you the truth and you start interjecting other things that the parable has nothing to do with. It is not about Jews. Without the righteousness of Christ you cannot be saved; you cannot enter heaven. That is all there is to it. Nothing more.

No, you said God judging His people is a comfort! You are the one who tries to inject things that do not belong. I will continue to stay focused on the topic, so that the one I am debating does not go off onto other things, while never addressing the question.

 

[Moriah]

The Book of Hebrews is written to Christians, Jewish Christians. There isn't a book in the NT that is written to the unsaved. They are written to the saved. God judges His people every day. He also comforts them. Read the entire chapter.

Stop trampling around the question. How do you think God is comforting His people by saying He will judge His people?

 

[DHK]

Stop trampling around the question. How do you think God is comforting His people by saying He will judge His people?

Do you believe that you will be judged? I do.
Everyone shall give account of himself to God.
The saved shall stand before Christ at the Judgment Seat of Christ (1Cor.3:11-15).
The unsaved shall stand before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment. (Rev.20:11-15)

God shall judge his people. He will judge you too.
But that thought can be comforting, depending on how you live this life on earth. When you stand, as a believer before the Judgment Seat, will their be reward or loss of reward.
The writer was encouraging them.

 

[Moriah]

Do you believe that you will be judged? I do.
Everyone shall give account of himself to God.
The saved shall stand before Christ at the Judgment Seat of Christ (1Cor.3:11-15).
The unsaved shall stand before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment. (Rev.20:11-15)

God shall judge his people. He will judge you too.
But that thought can be comforting, depending on how you live this life on earth. When you stand, as a believer before the Judgment Seat, will their be reward or loss of reward.
The writer was encouraging them.

No, you need to explain why it is a DREADFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.

What is wrong with your salvation if when God judges you, it will be dreadful?

 

[DHK]

No, you need to explain why it is a DREADFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.

What is wrong with your salvation if when God judges you, it will be dreadful?

Did you read the chapter? Have you considered the context?

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
--a true heart in full assurance of faith (comfort)
--Our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (comfort)

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
--encouragement.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
--encouragement

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
--encouragement to fellowship together (coming to church)

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
--A reference to the OT Jewish system. For those who were thinking of going back to the Temple worship there was no more sacrifice for sins. Christ was the only sacrifice.
--Therefore encouragement to go on.

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
--They were under persecution. This is comfort. There will come a day when God will judge those that are persecuting them; their enemies.

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
--To stand against Moses was certain death.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
--If judgment was that severe in the OT, how much greater will it be in the NT for those who reject Christ, especially with all the light, the light of NT truth that we have today!
--Some of these Jewish Christians were discouraged and thinking of going back to the Temple to worship. The author is saying IF this should happen--"suppose ye" he says. He sets forth a scenario. He doesn't say it will happen or does happen. It doesn't.

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
--God judges. He is a righteous judge, and I take comfort in that.

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
--For those that know not God it will indeed be fearful. I will not be among those. It will not be fearful for me.
Remember, the author has set forth a scenario that if there were some that had returned to Judaism, it would be fearful. But none of them did.

Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
--He calls them to remember the former days where they were illuminated--enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

The entire chapter is more of a chapter of encouragement and comfort.